I have to ask a question that's been bugging me for quite some time...why do folks model they're tank tracks rusty{not including the dead/ taken out tanks}? My reason for asking is any time I've seen any given bulldozer or tracked construction vehicle there was really no rust to be seen on those tracks...we had a bulldozer sit from fall to spring two years ago @ the factory where I work @ and the tracks stayed pretty clean...why did the WWII tanks fair so badly? They ran thru the same muck the now-a-days construction tracked vehicles run thru...am I comparing apples with apples here?
...inquirering minds wish to know.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Why rusty tracks?
old-dragon
Joined: August 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,289 posts
Armorama: 191 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 08:59 AM UTC
Exile
Joined: October 21, 2005
KitMaker: 34 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 09:06 AM UTC
I'm with you on this one, we have construction at work and the tracked vehicles don't have the shiney highlights either, more of a dull white grey.....hmmmmm. lots of mud build up in interesting places on the bogie wheels and sprockets, no vast amouts of artistic sprayed up mud though.
Tony
Tony
warthog
Joined: July 29, 2002
KitMaker: 1,460 posts
Armorama: 1,080 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 10:25 AM UTC
One of the reasons probably is artistic talent. IMHO, if you notice, rust color is always in contrast to the over-all look of a kit. It therefore attracts the attention of an observer -- but in reality this does not apply. A black-bluish looking track is too bland looking -- add a few mud a rust...it makes a big difference. Just my two cents.
Cheers
Cheers
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 10:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
why did the WWII tanks fair so badly?
Easy answer is that they didn't. Examination of combat photos will show the wearing surfaces of any track to be burnished metal, exactly like your local bulldozer. Those rusting their tracks are conforming to an artistic preference, not fact.
scoccia
Joined: September 02, 2002
KitMaker: 2,606 posts
Armorama: 1,721 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 11:02 AM UTC
I can talk for what concerns model vehicles and my personal experience. I spent almost eight years on the tanks and I remember that when they arrived from the factory they were perfect but... the tracks that were rusty! Just a few days ago I've seen a documentary on Discovery Channel about the M1 Abrams manufacturing and I've noticed that the brand new tracks they were putting on a brand new tank were already rusty.
The only clean tracks i saw were the spare one that arrived sealed at the units but after opening the boxes got rusty in two or three days...
Ciao
Fabio
The only clean tracks i saw were the spare one that arrived sealed at the units but after opening the boxes got rusty in two or three days...
Ciao
Fabio
tray
Joined: September 13, 2005
KitMaker: 193 posts
Armorama: 186 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 11:25 AM UTC
Tracks do rust, or to be exact they oxidate. Depending on their material of the tracks the oxidation may result in the well known brownish color or the above mentioned dull grey. Sometimes pink, white, and all the shades in between 
When the vehicle moves the thin coat of rust disappears quickly, revelaing the original metal color. But leave it rest overnight and in the morning they will be rusty again!
Check out some museum walkarounds and field photos, you will see what I said.
When the vehicle moves the thin coat of rust disappears quickly, revelaing the original metal color. But leave it rest overnight and in the morning they will be rusty again!
Check out some museum walkarounds and field photos, you will see what I said.
clausen
Joined: May 03, 2003
KitMaker: 449 posts
Armorama: 212 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:39 PM UTC
I agree with the last couple of posts! - Been around M-109 SPH's for 8 years now. If you the leave the vehicle for a day or two, the rust will appear!
Bjoern
Bjoern
Hwa-Rang
Joined: June 29, 2004
KitMaker: 6,760 posts
Armorama: 1,339 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:54 PM UTC
Torchy
#047
Joined: September 13, 2005
KitMaker: 2,016 posts
Armorama: 1,187 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 03:37 PM UTC
Heres one we made earlier :-) :-) :-) :-)
Henk
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
Armorama: 4,258 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 03:49 PM UTC
Many would consider this to be to rusty I suppose
But then again...
Cheers
Henk
But then again...
Cheers
Henk
HONEYCUT
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 4,002 posts
Armorama: 2,947 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 03:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Tracks do rust, or to be exact they oxidate. When the vehicle moves the thin coat of rust disappears quickly, revelaing the original metal color. But leave it rest overnight and in the morning they will be rusty again!
This I agree with as it can happen on my sewer rooter machine that I use to unblock drains. The cables are 15' lengths and if they have been immersed in water or left in rain for a couple of days there is a light rust over the carrycage and cables. Use them and it instantly goes... So basically I think peoples opinions are formed on different interpretations of what is happening...
Hohenstaufen
Joined: December 13, 2004
KitMaker: 2,192 posts
Armorama: 1,615 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 05:18 PM UTC
The benefits of 60 years advances in metallurgy!!?
keenan
Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
Armorama: 2,844 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 05:24 PM UTC
Steve,
Steel is pretty much still just steel.
Anyhow, I think it depends a lot on the situation. The picture of the Abrams Jesper posted looks like it is coming off of a ship. Exposure to salty sea air would rust the tracks bright orange like that in no time. Also, bear in mind that thing was sitting still on the ship.
The amount and color of the rust is going to vary a lot depending on how recently the vehicle moved and what terrain it is moving over.
Just my .02.
Shaun
Steel is pretty much still just steel.
Anyhow, I think it depends a lot on the situation. The picture of the Abrams Jesper posted looks like it is coming off of a ship. Exposure to salty sea air would rust the tracks bright orange like that in no time. Also, bear in mind that thing was sitting still on the ship.
The amount and color of the rust is going to vary a lot depending on how recently the vehicle moved and what terrain it is moving over.
Just my .02.
Shaun
Tankleader
Joined: April 29, 2003
KitMaker: 718 posts
Armorama: 684 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 05:27 PM UTC
Hello All,
That is another one of my little pet-peeves (besides the notorious black barrels) based on my 21 years of armor experience. If your going to portray a tank that is in motion the end connectors and upper portions of the center guides wear to a shinny bright color (steel). Now if you are going to show a vehicle halted or sitting in the tank park adding rust to the tracks makes perfect sense. In my unit if we were to do a static display we would run that tank around for a few minutes giving us the nice clean track appearance. The Generals liked to complain about the tracks being rusty.
Tanks
Andy
That is another one of my little pet-peeves (besides the notorious black barrels) based on my 21 years of armor experience. If your going to portray a tank that is in motion the end connectors and upper portions of the center guides wear to a shinny bright color (steel). Now if you are going to show a vehicle halted or sitting in the tank park adding rust to the tracks makes perfect sense. In my unit if we were to do a static display we would run that tank around for a few minutes giving us the nice clean track appearance. The Generals liked to complain about the tracks being rusty.
Tanks
Andy
Tankleader
Joined: April 29, 2003
KitMaker: 718 posts
Armorama: 684 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 06:25 PM UTC
Quoted Text
heres a nice one for ya
Is united defense getting cheap with the steel now or what??
Yeah, get them on the road and run them for about 5 miles and you won't have that rust. Then again they look like they just got off of a boat.
Tanks
Andy
keenan
Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
Armorama: 2,844 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 07:03 PM UTC
Re: Cheap Steel
Cast steel rusts. Cast iron rusts. (In fact, in this type of weather that is one of the most frequent complaints I get from customers, rusty castings.) High nickle moly steel rusts. Stainless steel doesn't rust but costs almost twice as much as "normal" steel and doesn't have the same chemical or mechanical properties.
Shaun
/Not a metallurgist but work with two of them
//One went to Ohio State so he doesn't really count.
Cast steel rusts. Cast iron rusts. (In fact, in this type of weather that is one of the most frequent complaints I get from customers, rusty castings.) High nickle moly steel rusts. Stainless steel doesn't rust but costs almost twice as much as "normal" steel and doesn't have the same chemical or mechanical properties.
Shaun
/Not a metallurgist but work with two of them
//One went to Ohio State so he doesn't really count.
AJLaFleche
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
Armorama: 3,293 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 08:34 PM UTC
If my car sits inthe garage a couple days after it has rained or I've wahsed it, there will be a fince coat of rust of the brake rotors. By the time I've gotten to the end of the driveway, they're polished again. Sit any untreated steel in the elements and you'll get varying layers of rust in a pretty short period.
bison44
Joined: August 27, 2002
KitMaker: 471 posts
Armorama: 275 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 11:26 PM UTC
I always get a kick out of these threads. It always seems like it has to be one way or the other. I grew up on a farm and have worked around heavy machinery all my life. And you will run into every combo of rusty dirty tracks and metal etc if you look hard enough. Things rust very fast and the rust comes off very fast, so seeing all sorts of tracks in different states of abuse seems very believable to me. I think its very hard to say that someone is definatley wrong when they do their tracks a certain way. And isn't it really up to the modeller, not everything we make is 100% accurate, HAHA!! The same goes for blackened muzzles.
Ray
Joined: May 06, 2002
KitMaker: 10 posts
Armorama: 9 posts
Posted: Monday, February 20, 2006 - 06:00 AM UTC
Another point: most of the dirt in the european area is tan(dry) to reddish(moist). I usually use pigments in weathering my tracks. It is sometimes hard to tell if it is dirty or rusty looking! I always say it is just a mixture!
If I want the tracks to look like they have been used recently, I usually use pencil lead on the highlights, I think the lead looks more like polished steel than silver highlights.
If I want the tracks to look like they have been used recently, I usually use pencil lead on the highlights, I think the lead looks more like polished steel than silver highlights.
Tankleader
Joined: April 29, 2003
KitMaker: 718 posts
Armorama: 684 posts
Posted: Monday, February 20, 2006 - 06:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I always get a kick out of these threads. It always seems like it has to be one way or the other. I grew up on a farm and have worked around heavy machinery all my life. And you will run into every combo of rusty dirty tracks and metal etc if you look hard enough. Things rust very fast and the rust comes off very fast, so seeing all sorts of tracks in different states of abuse seems very believable to me. I think its very hard to say that someone is definatley wrong when they do their tracks a certain way. And isn't it really up to the modeller, not everything we make is 100% accurate, HAHA!! The same goes for blackened muzzles.
I have to agree with you here (except the black muzzle deal), for me the way I would judge what a vehicle should look like is based on the setting the modeler portrays the model in. If he puts it in a Dio hinting at or displaying a vehicle in motion then lest rust more metal, if its sitting still in a static position or parked, more rust is appropriate. Now, I guess you can paint your muzzle black in order to enhance you camo pattern, I'll except that one!!!..
Tanks
Andy
Grumpyoldman
ConsigliereJoined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
Armorama: 7,297 posts
Posted: Monday, February 20, 2006 - 06:56 AM UTC
I guess Shep Paine covered this many years ago, seems really simple, and the debate could go on for years. But a little common sense may set in, even if the tracks rusted from sitting over night, a short run across the gravel, dirt or sand, would have an abrasive action and clean most of the fresh rust off.
Even my old motorcycle chain showed signs of rust even though it was well oiled, if it sat in wet weather, for a period of time, but a trip around the corner soon cleaned it off.
Even my old motorcycle chain showed signs of rust even though it was well oiled, if it sat in wet weather, for a period of time, but a trip around the corner soon cleaned it off.
keenan
Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
Armorama: 2,844 posts
Posted: Monday, February 20, 2006 - 07:02 AM UTC
I need to know what color is the best olive drab to paint on the Sherman I am working on with some what rusty tracks and a sorta blackened muzzle.
Thanks in advance for all the help.
Shaun
/Ducks and runs for cover
//Kidding of course
///Carry on
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
Armorama: 3,947 posts
Posted: Monday, February 20, 2006 - 10:02 AM UTC
In addition to Shaun's inquiry, can you answer me these?
1) what is the best shade of OD to put on those Tunisian Tigers that captured US stocks?
2) can I show a kubelwagen towing my new DML 88mm Flak 37? How likely was this?
3) And finally, where should I mount my 1/35 Windex bottle -- you know I need it for the clean areas of my dusty windshield.
LOL
(just having a little fun!)
1) what is the best shade of OD to put on those Tunisian Tigers that captured US stocks?
2) can I show a kubelwagen towing my new DML 88mm Flak 37? How likely was this?
3) And finally, where should I mount my 1/35 Windex bottle -- you know I need it for the clean areas of my dusty windshield.
LOL
(just having a little fun!)
blaster76
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
Armorama: 3,034 posts
Posted: Monday, February 20, 2006 - 10:48 AM UTC
OHHH PLEASE SIR...Which is better a Sherman or a Tiger?
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.