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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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2 X Sherman mysteries (to me at least!)
HONEYCUT
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Posted: Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 04:25 PM UTC
Gday was on the peruse on the net and
1~ Found a pic of a composite/hybrid M4A1 (large hatch) with a T23 turret and subsequently a 76mm gun... How common were they? Don't recall seeing one before...
2~ Saw another pic of 2 X M4A3 (HVSS) which had deep wading trunks but were removed to leave the lower sections only... Never knew they were used in WWII, and knowing nothing about the Korean war, could they have been used there? Bearing in mind there were other M4A3s VVSS in the pic, totalling about 6 tanks I think...
Cue you shedding light on this.... now!
Cheers
Brad
Would post the pics, but the gallery won't let me
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 04:44 PM UTC
Hi Brad,

Could you provide the URl even if you can't post the pictures.

Here's a link to C sqn 2RTR in Italy Dec 44 (just copy and paste)

http://www.desertrat.brigades.btinternet.co.uk/7thABartefacts2.htm

Just scroll towards the bottom of the page and you'll see what looks very like an M4A1 composite hull with large hatches and 76mm gun.

The British and Commonwealth Troops use this tank in Italy, I don't know in what numbers and the Polish Armoured units also used it in NWE.

If I'm wrong someone will correct me but I think that information is correct form eveything that I've seen and read so far.

Hope this helps.

Al

HONEYCUT
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Posted: Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 05:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Brad,



you'll see what looks very like an M4A1 composite hull with large hatches and 76mm gun.




Thanks Al, but the pic you linked to does not look a hybrid? The pic I had clearly showed a clear weld seam for the cast and welded hull join, but no hint of applique armour though... The turret is a later T23 with the oval loaders hatch...And sorry I saved the images but they do not have their urls attached...


Had another look at the other. It features no less than 8 tanks on manouver, with painted out stars, 2 VVSS composite hull, and what looks to be 10AD 7_3TB tank A-11... But there are no serial numbers on the rear sides, only "US ARMY"... It looks cold, and one of the tanks ahs a rough whitewash over its front, including bands on the guntube...Any clues?
exer
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Posted: Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 05:52 PM UTC
Could you email the Hybrid/T23 shot to me. I've never seen one.
[email protected]
HONEYCUT
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Posted: Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 06:50 PM UTC
Here you go Pat
Got my pics up and running
Maybe this is a prototype?



Hard to see here, but the 2 HVSS with wading stack remains are on the ridge in the centre of the pic.
generalzod
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Posted: Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 08:53 PM UTC
Bradley

That 1st photo is a prototype I can tell by looking at the bogies on the suspension

As far as the M4A3 HVSS goes,I do believe some were used late in the Pacific war They would be the 105mm howitzer turrets used by the US Army I will check in the Concord book of Pacific tank battles to let you know when and where they were used later today
toadman1
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Posted: Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 10:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Here you go Pat
Got my pics up and running
Maybe this is a prototype?



Hard to see here, but the 2 HVSS with wading stack remains are on the ridge in the centre of the pic.


The first pic is a prototype for the "Ultimate" Sherman. It is a one off and has the 76mm plus early HVSS suspension.

In the second pic, the tanks with HVSS have usually been identified as M4(105)HVSS with the others being M4 Composite flamethrowers. This photo was taken on Okinawa.

Chris "toadman" Hughes
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toadman1
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Posted: Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 10:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Brad,

Could you provide the URl even if you can't post the pictures.

Here's a link to C sqn 2RTR in Italy Dec 44 (just copy and paste)

http://www.desertrat.brigades.btinternet.co.uk/7thABartefacts2.htm

Just scroll towards the bottom of the page and you'll see what looks very like an M4A1 composite hull with large hatches and 76mm gun.

The British and Commonwealth Troops use this tank in Italy, I don't know in what numbers and the Polish Armoured units also used it in NWE.

If I'm wrong someone will correct me but I think that information is correct form eveything that I've seen and read so far.

Hope this helps.

Al



The one in your link is a M4A1(76). This is based on the sides of the hull being a round casting as opposed to be made up of flat pieces. Also, no applique armor is present on the hull side.

Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
Hollowpoint
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Posted: Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 10:38 PM UTC
I think the 1st pic is of a prototype, probably at Aberdeen.

The 2nd photo is familiar to me -- it was the wallpaper on my computer for about a year.

The pic is of M4 composite flame tanks and M4 105mm howitizer tanks of the 713th (Flamethrower) Tank Battalion on Okinawa in April 1945. This pic is on page 66 of Zaloga's Tank Battles of the Pacific War (Concord 7004). The reason the HVSS tanks have wading trunks is because they have just landed.
HONEYCUT
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Posted: Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 02:27 AM UTC
Bewdy guys, thanks for the help
I like to learn new stuff
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