I was hoping someone could help me.

I've just started using Andrea/Vallejo paints a while back and I'm really having trouble. I consider myself a pretty decent enamals/oil painter so I've got the basics down of painting down, yet I still find myself very frustrated by Andrea/Vallejo paints.

I've been to their website and read the lessons there about diluting paint and painting in layers-- which I've done. Yet I find that the paints often come out streaky and at times blotchy. Also, its really hard to lift the brush from the figure without leaving a little drop where the brush left off. Lastly, the shades never seem to mix well on the figure and I end up with very dark/base/highlights.

So I'm looking for any general advice and perhaps the answer the questions below.

1) Do you usually dilute Andrea paints? When and how?
2) Ways to avoid streaks?
3) Advice on shading with Andrea?

Lastly, Andrea recommends painting the base, then dark, then highlights. Yet has anyone tried reversiing this? Going from light to dark?

Anyway, anything would help. I like the vibrant color of these paints but some of the other aspects are making me a bit crazy.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. Andrea sells a "How to Paint the Way" CD. Anyone know if its worth it?

Can't Answer all your question becuase im new to figure painting but I have purchased Andrea's CD. I really enjoyed it not sure if it worth the money to some if they already have books on painting or already an expert. Only thing bout the cd i don't like they not really clear on how much paint to water ratio and same with mixing colors. Of course You still need to keep painting and practicing to get better something of which I havn't been doing video games are highly addictive =( Hope i helped a little with your cd question.

AJ

I know you said you have been to their website - but Vallejo webside recommends just the opposite. Start with highlights, then shadows

Vallejo

Jans,
Maybe I'm not reading what you are, but my understanding of the "Painting Figures" article on the site talks about painting a base, then layers of diluted lighter colors. If I'm wrong, please show me but I don't think I am.

Thanks for info on the CD, I'm considering it but I'd like more on paint dilution and stuff.

Again, any help would help.

First I should to say that I use Vallejos acrylics and I don´t know if there´s any differences between them and Andrea. But I´ll try to give you my two cents on your questions:

1. On areas the size like skin and clothing I always dillute the paint, on smaller areas it depends on the object. And also a billowing dress needs lots more of dillution than a more hard edge highlight.

2. Use many layers and don´t let they differ that much from each others. I´ve had this problem too quite a lot, but somehow I´ve have learned to go around it.

3. I go from darkest and up or first base, then shade and lastly highlight. It depends most on how I feel for the moment and wich type if figure it is. If it´s an historical piece with an exact shade on his uniform then I go with the second way, but if it´s a fantasy figure I mostly go with the first way because then I just want to do something cool in striking colours.

Hope some of this helps!

Andreas,
When you say you go through layers, can you give me an idea of how many layers? Also, do you mix the colors AND layers? Meaning mix 1st base & 2nd base, dilute, and paint, then mix 2nd base to f1st shadow, dilute, etc.? Or just the straight diluted colors?

I'm trying to get the hang of these paints but find them very, very unforgiving. Oils and enamels seem alot more forgiving with mixing or mistakes.

Thanks in advance.

I can give my last well-painted figure as an example.

This elves coat was given around nine coats of different hue, each of the nine colours applied between one and three times, dependent of how thick I mixed them. The lighter hue, the more water/retarder I mixed in. It´s commonly said that the consistency of milk is the one you should strive for, but I think it depends most on what you are painting. The darkest layers here were just thinned with a small amount of retarder, while the lightest highlight felt more like very orange water.

I started with the darkest coat and made them gradual lighter and lighter, being careful not applying the next layer until the one before was totally dry. This can take some time due to the retarder, a hair dryer comes very handy.

The use of retarder is very important as the colours dries way too fast otherwise. I use the Blending Medium from Windsor & Newton but I know there are other wich also work as good as theirs.

Was this an answer to your questions? Please tell me if you understand or not what I´m writing. As English isn´t my native language I´m not very good in explaining things more in depth But I´m more than happy if I´m able to help!

Andreas,
Thanks for the response. Your English is fine and your figure is excellent, very nice colors. I found your post very helpful.

I think my problem is that I'm not using enough layers and I'm not mixing the colors. That is, I'm using a few layers of dark, base, and highlight each but not mixing the base with highlights etc. I need to start doing alot more layers given your post.

Now here's a few more questions:
You said you use a Windsor&Newton retarder-- I'm assuming you mean the retarder for acrylic? Not oils?

Lastly, a central problem for me is that my layers seem to leave streaks. Any advice? I'm mixing the paint is little bottle caps and adding the water with an eye-dropper if it matters. My heaviest dilution has been 1/7.

Although, I don't always get streaks, when I do its ruinous.

Thanks for the greats posts so far.

Good you understand me!
Yes it´s of course retarder for acrylics, here is a pic I had btw:


I think you will be on the right way by using more layers even when it´s about reducing the paint streaks and marks of where you lift the paintbrush. If I understand you right the mark you get from the paintbrush is an accumulation of paint on the place you lift the paintbrush, if it is, you´re not alone I have actually learned to turn this bad paintbehaviour into something good. By drawing the paintbrush against, and lifting the paintbrush at the place where you need the paint you get the accumulation at a point where you want it.

This might sound like a very strange idea but it is the best I know you can do against it. I had to do this a lot in the above pictured elf.

Actually, what you could do more is to use thicker paint, not always a good idea but sometimes it works. But then it is even more important that you use retarder, because then you can work with the paint a longer time and "feather" (wright word?) it out in the edges.

Ps. Do you have some pictures of your tries with acrylics? Then I might find more to say.

Andreas,
Thanks again. I'm running out and getting some of that Winston retarder this weekend. I'm sure it'll help. And yes, you're advice on layers yielded immediate results. Its amazing how just having a clue to go on can be such a help.

I'm painting Tamiya's German Machine gunner in overcoat and have had a tough time with the overcoat. Like I said, I'm usaully oils and enamels but have been trying to push myself to explore. I almost ruined the figure. I'll take some pictures this weekend and post some progress shots soon.

Below you'll find another figure that was a mix of enamels and andreas. Let me know what you think

My camera skills are a bit weak.

I see Andrea had given you most of the tricks. I would like to add, if I may, is that brush strokes can go any directions. You don't have to limit to just the point of the brush either. You can use the side of the brush to lay in a larger area. And use the end of the brush stroke to lay in the maximum amount of paint. Thus, like Andrea had said, for high light, the end of the brush stroke should be the lightest area.
One thing you can do when you find that the high light, the mid tone, and the shadows' transitions are too harsh. You can dilute your mide tone , almost one to fifteen or more, then lay a thin coat over the whole area. First you don't feel any changes, but after a number of coats,( some times even ten) you will find the transision soften up. Then you can go back to high lighting and shading.
I'd painted with oils and Humbrol before, but I found acrylic tops both of them. No smell, fast drying,less brush marks, and very forgiving, as long as you use thin layers.
You can see my figure in the gallery. Hope this give you nore confident in carry on using acrylics. Its safe to you and your family, and safe to the earth.

Yes Edward you are right, thanks for complementing me! I have tried the technique with dilluting the mid too, but I have never really mastered it. I think I have too learn it soon though, thanks for reminding me.
Ps. Very nice figure you had in the gallery Edward!

Tylusfaust, your figure look from what I can see overall good, although the pics are, as you seem to be aware of, a bit dark.
The green cloth looks well done but I think you could push the highlights a bit lighter, same thing with the red coat.
The gold seem to have flown out of where it should be between his legs, a little bit more tidyness on this makes a big difference. In the face on the other hand you seem to have put a too clear line between his skin and beard, try softening it up a bit.
Most of this can be cause of the pics so if I´m just ranting it can be that I don´t see better

You are on a good start but I think you can do it better with some exercise. And I look forward to see the machine gunner, I have done that figure too, but that was in my enamel period before I discovered Vallejo...

Thank you for the points about my figure. The pictures are abit dark because my camera is on the cheap side. The figure is not as dark as it appears, though I admit, it is missing highlights. This is my first real attempt at a figure since I was 13! and so I was nervous about getting too bold with the painting. Maybe I'll revisit him for highlights.

Andreas, you're figure is very good. The blue gems make it. The colors are so vibrant they really make the figure come alive. I like your tank too, though it looks a bit "perfect" to me-- are you going to weather or leave it in pristine condition?

Edward, hats off to your figure. Great figure and wonderfully painted. Very humbling to someone like me. I have a few questions:
a) Who makes that figure and what scale?
b) The figure has some wonderful "white dusty" looking highlights. How did you acheive that effect? Was it through feathering layers of acrylic? It looks sort of like you dusted a very light layer of white pastel. Maybe drybrushing?
c) Lastly, the red cross and a few other items seem faded, almost as if airbrushed? Again, how did you achieve that effect on the cross? Its also very precise.

I will definitely be looking into buying that beautiful figure. Anyway, thanks for both your comments again. Its been hugely helpful. I'm at the beginning of my model building hobby and its great to see helpful experts along the way.
Again, maybe I'll post my sad Russian front german when he's farther along.

My tank? Do I have a tank in my gallery? Oh yes, that old Panther perhaps. Well that´s an old build I have stopped for the moment, and will probably not continue. I noticed after some time building it that I´ve got too fastidious to do it without an airbrush, and I don´t have money to buy that now. Not after buying the complete Vallejo range...

Yes you´re right about the gemstones, they lift the whole figure. And they are actually one of the easiest things to paint on him. Please take a look here if you want some more info on how to do them: Written somewhere here

Hi, sorry getting back to you so late. I had a busy day at the office yesterday, it does happen once in a blue moon. :-) The figure is 90mm, from Pegaso. You can get it from VLS. They have a bunch of nice people there.
I paint the whole figure with Vallejo, and my Winsor and Newton series 7 brushes only. No airbrush was use. The figure was primed with Chaos Black from an aresol by Games Workshop. I alway try different painting process with different figure. This one happened to have a black overall under coat. The secret was thinned paint. The white cloth, th dust the crosses, all painted with thinned down Vallejo. I did used different degree of thinness for different purpose. The dust was started with very, very thin paint, in different sandy colors, and with different kind of brush strokes. Lastly in stippling strokes with slight thicker paint. I rarely use dry brushing, because it difficult for me to control where exectly I want to lay down my paint. Having said that, I do dry brush when I am using a preshading process, and for the chainmail.
By the way, I mostly follow the technique in Vallejo's web site. It really work. Just remember, use thin paint, wait till the first layer dry completely before you lay in the next layer. Alway use the base coat as a base( that's why you call it base. ) Mix your high light and shadow out from the base color. Have a lot of patience, and experiment with you brush strokes. It's not some required a geneuis to achive. Hang in there and you'll find you can get good results sooner then you think.
As with the cross, I did that free hand, now, that is some thing you need to practice. :-) :-) But you know what, I also skatch the cross out with very thin paint, correct it with the base color untill I am happy with the shape, befor I actually paint the cross out.
A quick note on your photos. See that door way on the right top corner? That may be the reason why the photo came out dark. The camera had use that light source as point of reading, so the exposure was corrected for the door way, but made the rest of the photo slightly dark. Just a wild guess..

Ed

Thanks for the info, I'll definitely be getting that figure.

What is VLS? A website?

I love the dusty look and wonder whether you could get the same effect with pastels. Also, could you tell me more about your pre-shading technique. Colors, shading areas, etc.

I'll hopefully have some pictures of my figure by tomorrow and I'll put them up. He's a work in progress and he's the first time that I've tried to use vallejo paints to shade. So he's my experiment.

Edward and Andrea,

Here's a few shots of my Gunner while at the working stages. He's been through alot! Its my first effort at shading with andrea paints and I ended up screwing up his coat twice and have to do it a third time. I was lucky the figure wasn't completely ruined. As you can probably tell, I didn't go high enough the highlights. I kind of like the face since I just started painting faces and have never painted a 1/16 huge face. Anyway, let me know what you think. He is still in progress.

And Edward, I looked for that figure and couldn't find him in the Pegaso site. What is he called?

Hi, first of all, here is VLS's web site:
http://www.modelmecca.com
and the figure is 90-038 of Pegaso Models. It's 90mm, and should be easy to find.
The face quility of your German figure is very good for someone started out withacrylics, but the shading of the coat is a bit harsh. It is a wrong perception that bigger figures are easier to paint. Large shading area of a single color for that matter. So you had pick a relatively difficult figure to paint, in my opinion, that is. I think first of all, the brush you used to paint the over coat was probably too small. With a small brush on such a large area calls for a different tecnique. Anyway, I am using your photos to give you some suggestions. So hang on for a day or two. I will get back to you with some illustrations.

Well, what can I say, your face on that figure look damn more real than any of my faces I have painted! So continue like this and you´ll be the one who teach me a thing or two. Meanwhile I can say that I agree with both you and Edward about the coat, and I have nothing to add to that.
Though, I would like too see a bit more definition around details and equipment, for example some more deeper shading around the straps. And also, the holster seems to be not really even. More dilluted paint would probably be a solution.
I think you have learned to use acrylics very good, continue this way and it will get you where you want to.

Guys,
Thanks for the compliments on the face. Given that its the first time I've painted a 1/16 scale face, I'm pretty happy with it. I did alot of research on how to do it, and pretty much used a mixture of techniques and paints. The base is Andrea paints, then oils, then a very light wash again of Andreas. Weird but it works.

I'm also pretty happily surprised with the helmet. I used Andrea paints, then weathered it with pastels and it picked up a nice rough dusty look. Some lead pencil made it also look metalish.

As for the coat, Edward, I think alot of what you said is right. I didn't yet really know how to shade with Andreas and then I didn't really have Drying Retardent, which I recently bought. I got the Windsor Newton as posted here. It was alot of trial and error. I also was getting alot of streaks, probably because my brush was too thin. I think I better send some $$ on a few more brushes. Any suggestions as to what size/shape brushes you guys often use? I've got 0, 1, 3 and some odd ones.

Oh, and trust me, I never thought bigger figures meant easier. I think the eye forgives alot at the smaller scales. All that wide space in a 1/16 scale terrrified me.

In the end, I'll probably put a base on this guy and post him again for the full effect. And then, I'll probably buy another one just to practice what I learned and see if I can improve.