I would like to model two time periods- WWII (battle of the bulge) and Modern (today's armor). My question here is what tanks were typically used in the Ardennes battle. King Tiger? Early or Late? What Sherman variants? I realize the question is very general and I do not want a list of every tank or its variant on the battlefield but only the ones most used.
Please understand that I am getting back into the hobby after a 40 year absence so I may ask a stupid question so please bear with me. My eventual goal, after gaining much more modeling skills and experience, is to create a Battle of the Bulge diorama. Thanks for help on this topic.
Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
Battle of the Bulge tanks
pounder
Joined: December 30, 2002
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 02:09 AM UTC
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 02:34 AM UTC
Welcome back to modeling and to Armorama. 
As far as German tanks, the Panthers, Mks IV and V, and the Mk VI Tiger.
The Americans were the M4A3 75's and 76mm, The "Jumbo" was also there.
As far as German tanks, the Panthers, Mks IV and V, and the Mk VI Tiger.
The Americans were the M4A3 75's and 76mm, The "Jumbo" was also there.
SS-74
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 02:39 AM UTC
German used a lot of Panther, Pz IV later ones, (H, J), Tiger, King Tiger, Pz IV L/48, L/70, L/70(A) (Maybe), Stug III, IVs in the battle.
American, Shermans. #:-)
American, Shermans. #:-)
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 04:19 AM UTC
Hi Pounder .....Welcome back to the hobby & Happy 2003 !
...Something else which might be of interest to know - is that the U.S. used
a large amount of tank destroyers ( M10's - M18's - M36's ) in the bulge.
U.S. TD Battalion tatic's, combined with fire power were able to deal with the tiger I's and Panther's with knock-out blow's On the surface you don't here much about this, but when you start digging in to battle archives & unit/battalion historical account's of both the American's & German's it's all there.
- ralph
...Something else which might be of interest to know - is that the U.S. used
a large amount of tank destroyers ( M10's - M18's - M36's ) in the bulge.
U.S. TD Battalion tatic's, combined with fire power were able to deal with the tiger I's and Panther's with knock-out blow's On the surface you don't here much about this, but when you start digging in to battle archives & unit/battalion historical account's of both the American's & German's it's all there.
- ralph
SS-74
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 04:21 AM UTC
Ralph, I really like the extensive knowledge you have on WW II stuff. I salute you man! 
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 04:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Ralph, I really like the extensive knowledge you have on WW II stuff. I salute you man!
Thanks for the kind words Dave, but I must be honest. This reference & info is out there for ANY & ALL to gain knowledge from. It just depends on how much time & energy a person/modeler/military enthusiast, wants to put into digging around in W.W.II records & archives and good book's. The only advise I can give on good book's is to make sure that it was written by a very reputable & knowledge author who does his homework and is dedicated to W.W.II historical accounts and not just wanting to make a buck on a very popular subject. ...... A VERY HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU DAVE !
did you finish your Nashorn yet ?
- ralph
barron
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 666 posts
Armorama: 598 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 04:52 AM UTC
Knowing you reference material really helps in contests also. I always had the reference material beside my models for the judges to look at if they had any questions. 
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 05:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Knowing you reference material really helps in contests also. I always had the reference material beside my models for the judges to look at if they had any questions.
That's the way to do it !
..............it really show's "interest & knowledge of subject " and organization !
- ralph
Folgore
Joined: May 31, 2002
KitMaker: 1,109 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 07:06 AM UTC
I read that the Germans used only one Tiger I in the Ardennes, but this may have just been for Kampfgruppe Peiper. Does anyone else know anything about this? Generally, the Panthers and PzIVs led the attack and the King Tigers struggled to catch up with them. I know pretty well diddly-squat about US stuff, though :-)
Nic
Nic
pounder
Joined: December 30, 2002
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 07:07 AM UTC
Thanks to all who replied for their welcome and the information. I now have the tanks I can focus on and the tank destroyers were something I did not consider begore but I will now.
Hawkeye
Joined: March 29, 2002
KitMaker: 701 posts
Armorama: 640 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 07:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I read that the Germans used only one Tiger I in the Ardennes, but this may have just been for Kampfgruppe Peiper. Does anyone else know anything about this? Generally, the Panthers and PzIVs led the attack and the King Tigers struggled to catch up with them. I know pretty well diddly-squat about US stuff, though :-)
Nic
Hey nick
i don't think the Tiger 1 was with Peiper.He had the 502nd SPA,yes, but they all had Tiger 2's not Tiger 1's.There was a unit that did operate a platton of Tiger 1's but i think they were Whermacht not SS
Later
Hawkeye
Bodeen
#026
Joined: June 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,359 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 10:37 AM UTC
Hi Pounder! Welcome to Armorama! Tamiya makes a very cool kit of a Tiger II and crew plus Motorcycle/dispatch rider as they would appear in the Ardennes. It even comes with the proper decals for vehicles involved in the Battle of the Bulge. Just a couple of things to remember...Tiger IIs that fought in the Ardennes usually had the Henschel turrets as opposed to the Porsche turret. They did not utilize the zimmerit coating found on earlier models and they had a very cool cammo scheme of dark yellow, primer red or brown and olive green. There are a lot of reference sources out there in books and on the web. Welcome back to the hobby and Happy modelling. Jeff
Favorisio
Joined: December 30, 2002
KitMaker: 277 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 11:09 AM UTC
Hi, it's funny but I am also just back to the hobby after many years and my interest is in WWII from D-Day onwards in Western Europe. I didn't really want to go for D-Day stuff at first, so I plumped for the Bulge, I am reading a lot about this at the minute as well.
My first choice was the M-10, and I got one made by Academy in 1/35th. I am in the middle of building this now and am very much learning the ropes. I am building straight out of the box as this is a trial build really. I have just bought a M4A3 Sherman with 75mm gun by Tamiya which will be my next one. This one comes with figures which will come in handy for any future diorama. I hope to build a small one first then I have grand plans for a winter scene. Well, in my dreams!
Good luck with your modeling, and maybe we should keep in touch as we have such similar interests and levels of modeling.
Roger
My first choice was the M-10, and I got one made by Academy in 1/35th. I am in the middle of building this now and am very much learning the ropes. I am building straight out of the box as this is a trial build really. I have just bought a M4A3 Sherman with 75mm gun by Tamiya which will be my next one. This one comes with figures which will come in handy for any future diorama. I hope to build a small one first then I have grand plans for a winter scene. Well, in my dreams!
Good luck with your modeling, and maybe we should keep in touch as we have such similar interests and levels of modeling.
Roger
stugiiif
Joined: December 13, 2002
KitMaker: 1,434 posts
Armorama: 868 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 05:15 PM UTC
welcome back pounder!!!!!!!!!!!!! well here is the skinny as i see it. you are in the best time to the ardennes campaign. tamiya has three releases to help you keep true to your goal. the two "new" sherman kits are out a 75mm with marking for the bulge and 105mm also with bulge markings. finally there is the afore mentioned king tiger, and options out the boot for six different bulge vehicles, the dispatch rider is a nice treat. that's it for tamiya. now the tank destroyers are in the middle of a war of companies the m10 and m18 are both being produce by AFVclub and academy and each has their pros and cons. the nice thing is they both have anounced m36's to be out this quarter. a rather prosperouse time to return indeed. happy modeling and good hunting stug
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 04:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI read that the Germans used only one Tiger I in the Ardennes, but this may have just been for Kampfgruppe Peiper. Does anyone else know anything about this? Generally, the Panthers and PzIVs led the attack and the King Tigers struggled to catch up with them. I know pretty well diddly-squat about US stuff, though :-)
Nic
Hey nick
i don't think the Tiger 1 was with Peiper.He had the 502nd SPA,yes, but they all had Tiger 2's not Tiger 1's.There was a unit that did operate a platton of Tiger 1's but i think they were Whermacht not SS
Later
Hawkeye
Hey guy's there was alot more than just one or two tiger I's in the Bulge and the 502 was not attched tp KG Peiper .....it was SS sPz.Abt 501, which fielded 30 Kingtiger's.
Heer ( Army ) sPz.Abt 506 and sPz.Abt (Fkl ) 301 were attached to the 6.Panzer Army.
4.kompanie Hummel /sPz.Abt.506 had 14 tiger I's and the other three kompanie of .506 had all KingTigers. ...........301 battalion consisted of 31 Tiger I's. The kicker here is that not all of the tiger I's or II's were always operational at the same time. There were breakdowns and tanks which spent their remaining fuel. As fact has it, the tanks that lacked fuel, were used where they stood, in static fighting positions or destroyed by their own crews. As for the total of 45 Tiger I's between the 2 units, I can tell you officially that at least 25 of those Tiger I's were operational. This cover's what i know of the Wehrmacht Heer Tiger I's in the Ardennes from Dec.16, 1944 to Jan.14. 1945. I don't have any info on the Waffen SS Tiger I's.
- ralph
pounder
Joined: December 30, 2002
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 09:26 AM UTC
This is definitely the place to come for help and I appreciate all of it-thanks to everyone for their help.
I have purchased Tamiya's M4A3 kit #35250. I read good reviews about it and it looked liked a good place to start. I also purchased a kit of Tamiya's Infantry figures. I have since discovered I bought an older set with a new Assault Infantry set now available. I do not yet own an airbrush and do not want to begin the M4A3 before I own a good a/b and compressor.
The first item I purchased since re-entering the hobby was a 1/72 F-117. I discovered at my age (53) I need larger items so 1/35 is much better. A friend of mine showed me a how-to book on armor models and I had to try armor! There is such a great selection in 1/35 scale.
I am hand painting the figures and gaining experience. I am reading the general model topic to look for good places to buy compressors and airbrush at a good price. Meanwhile I am using the time to read this site and others to learn more.
I have purchased Tamiya's M4A3 kit #35250. I read good reviews about it and it looked liked a good place to start. I also purchased a kit of Tamiya's Infantry figures. I have since discovered I bought an older set with a new Assault Infantry set now available. I do not yet own an airbrush and do not want to begin the M4A3 before I own a good a/b and compressor.
The first item I purchased since re-entering the hobby was a 1/72 F-117. I discovered at my age (53) I need larger items so 1/35 is much better. A friend of mine showed me a how-to book on armor models and I had to try armor! There is such a great selection in 1/35 scale.
I am hand painting the figures and gaining experience. I am reading the general model topic to look for good places to buy compressors and airbrush at a good price. Meanwhile I am using the time to read this site and others to learn more.
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 12:01 PM UTC
Hi Pounder. I wish you all the best with the hobby. The Tamiya M4A3 ( 75mm ) is an
excellent kit. I think your wise to wait to buy an airbrush for painting it. I also have this Sherman but I'm updating mine to a 76mm with the T23 Turret conversion set from Cheasapeake Model Designs. A tip on the Tamiya products: ....look on the side's of their boxes and you can find the year that the model was released. That way your sure to know if you are purchasing a more recent or older product. Also check out Dragon figures, I think you will find them to be better casted & better quality for 1/35 plastic. Have you tried your hand at any resin figures yet ?
GOOD LUCK & ENJOY YOURSELF !
excellent kit. I think your wise to wait to buy an airbrush for painting it. I also have this Sherman but I'm updating mine to a 76mm with the T23 Turret conversion set from Cheasapeake Model Designs. A tip on the Tamiya products: ....look on the side's of their boxes and you can find the year that the model was released. That way your sure to know if you are purchasing a more recent or older product. Also check out Dragon figures, I think you will find them to be better casted & better quality for 1/35 plastic. Have you tried your hand at any resin figures yet ?
GOOD LUCK & ENJOY YOURSELF !
pounder
Joined: December 30, 2002
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 12:43 PM UTC
I have read about resin figures but I know nothing about them except their detail is supposed to be better than plastic. Do you use regular plastic cement or is super glue required? Also, I prefer to use water based acrylics versus enamels for ease of clean up. Can you use water based acrylics on resin?
Screaming Eagle, thanks for the tip on looking for Tamiya's dates on their boxes.
Screaming Eagle, thanks for the tip on looking for Tamiya's dates on their boxes.
Bodeen
#026
Joined: June 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,359 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 02:28 PM UTC
Welcome back to the hobby to you too..Favorisio . I think we all have dreams of building that one big diorama that will knock everyone out! I don't have the space.........but i can stil dream! Maybe I'll use the garage! On second thought......I don't want to end up in divorce court! Have fun!!!!!!!!!!!! Jeff Hawkeye
Joined: March 29, 2002
KitMaker: 701 posts
Armorama: 640 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 10:51 PM UTC
Hey Ralph,
my mistake it was the 501 not 502 with Peiper and they had 45 tiger 2's at the start of Wacht Am Rhein.They really had a hard time of it on the roads in the Ardenne and as far as i can find out did not play that much of a role in the fighting,except to guzzle fuel that could have been better used in Panthers or Panzer IV's that could operate more successufully
Later
Hawkeye
my mistake it was the 501 not 502 with Peiper and they had 45 tiger 2's at the start of Wacht Am Rhein.They really had a hard time of it on the roads in the Ardenne and as far as i can find out did not play that much of a role in the fighting,except to guzzle fuel that could have been better used in Panthers or Panzer IV's that could operate more successufully
Later
Hawkeye
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Friday, January 03, 2003 - 06:28 AM UTC
Hi Hawk .....no problemo.
Yes, your right about the fuel. Hitler was a fool and didn't even take this into consideration, but his commanders knew the fuel shortage's were most definitely going to plague the operation even before it was launched. That's is one reason why the Germans failed ......THANK GOD. That's what happens when a "freaking lunatic"
is in command of an army.
- ralph
Yes, your right about the fuel. Hitler was a fool and didn't even take this into consideration, but his commanders knew the fuel shortage's were most definitely going to plague the operation even before it was launched. That's is one reason why the Germans failed ......THANK GOD. That's what happens when a "freaking lunatic"
is in command of an army.
- ralph
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Friday, January 03, 2003 - 06:48 AM UTC
Hi Pounder - here's some answers
I have read about resin figures but I know nothing about them except their detail is supposed to be better than plastic. Do you use regular plastic cement or is super glue required?
- You need to use CA = Cyanoacrylate ...... SUPER-GLUE
Also, I prefer to use water based acrylics versus enamels for ease of clean up. Can you use water based acrylics on resin?
- This is totally the choice of the modeler himself. Whatever your comfortable using.
ENAMELS - OIL'S - ACRYLICS can all be used with resin and plastic ( polystyrene ).
Screaming Eagle, thanks for the tip on looking for Tamiya's dates on their boxes.
- No problemo ......ANYTIME ! You can also email me if needed. just click on the profile tab
for my address.
REGARDS
- ralph
I have read about resin figures but I know nothing about them except their detail is supposed to be better than plastic. Do you use regular plastic cement or is super glue required?
- You need to use CA = Cyanoacrylate ...... SUPER-GLUE
Also, I prefer to use water based acrylics versus enamels for ease of clean up. Can you use water based acrylics on resin?
- This is totally the choice of the modeler himself. Whatever your comfortable using.
ENAMELS - OIL'S - ACRYLICS can all be used with resin and plastic ( polystyrene ).
Screaming Eagle, thanks for the tip on looking for Tamiya's dates on their boxes.
- No problemo ......ANYTIME ! You can also email me if needed. just click on the profile tab
for my address.
REGARDS
- ralph
Folgore
Joined: May 31, 2002
KitMaker: 1,109 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, January 03, 2003 - 06:58 AM UTC
Another way to tell if a Tamiya kit is a recent release or not is by the kit #: 35xxx. Kits in the 200s and later 100s are newer and should have pretty good detail. I mention this because sometimes those copyright dates are hard to find (they are printed very small). Still, whether you look at the date or the kit #, some armour kits are merely old ones with a few "new" modifications. Tamiya doesn't warn you about this on the box, so it's sometimes a good idea to ask around about a particular kit here first.
Nic
Nic
Hawkeye
Joined: March 29, 2002
KitMaker: 701 posts
Armorama: 640 posts
Posted: Friday, January 03, 2003 - 06:59 AM UTC
Ralph,
Hitler was our best secret weapon.If he had left control of the German armies to his Commanders we could be fighting now!!
Later
Hawkeye
Hitler was our best secret weapon.If he had left control of the German armies to his Commanders we could be fighting now!!
Later
Hawkeye
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.