I want to build an M50 tank, but I heard that the Dragon DML tank is quite out of proportion. Should I abandon the idea?

Tom.

It's not a bad kit out of the box, however...
The hull is too long, for one. The fenders are too wide, but can be narrowed easily enough. The idler mount looks way off too, but it's hard to see. The most noticeable correction you can make is the exhaust, as it has the later style exhaust on top . It's fairly easy to cut out and patch up.
And no, don't abandon it. Even with all of the minor problems, it still walks like a duck.

i believe (but am not sure) that it is mearly the lower hull that is too long - which relates to the problem with the position of the idler wheel. On mine, I chopped out part of the the back section of the lower hull and moved it forward. I can't reallt speak to innaccuracies in the upper hull, but i think the main issue is the lower hull length - a simple correction that also fixes the idler position.

I got stalled on that project after that fix, but now i'll look further into this upper hull exhaust issue...

actually, after looking closer, the entire hull is, in fact, too long. the upper hull is also just under a quarter inch too long, and should end shortly after the little "exhaust spoon" (for lack of knowing how else to breifly describe it), and some of the minor deck details (like the lift rings) need to therefore be moved forward a bit.

However, after lots of looking at photos, I don't really see that the upper and rear hull details/exhaust are incorrect (other than this length issue). Looks like all the essentials are there to me (please point out why i am wrong if i am since i want to get this right as well!). There is a minor issue with the armored air intakes - the side with the hinge needs to be elevated so that the plate is the same height as the surrounding armored ridge that protects the sides if the intake.

Something is definitely wonky with the relationship between the track width and the side fenders - the fenders as supplied in the kit don't look so wrong on their own when compaired to pics, but they definitely extend too far past the tracks. If you narrow the fenders to match up with the tracks, they look too narrow, which makes me think the problem is really that the fenders are only a little too wide in conjunction with the tracks being placed a bit too close to the hull. this is borne out by the fact that the sprokets sort of bind with the inner part of the front fenders. I suggest moving each part of the sproket and wheel system slightly outboard (via a plastic shim) before deciding how much narrower the side fenders need to be.

I think the most accurate M50 (or so I've read) is the MP Models M50 Sherman by Tom Gannon. It has been out of production for around 10-15 years but is still easily found online (rather cheap). Here is a site that may be of help: http://www.mheaust.com.au/IDF/IDF%20Index.htm.

I should have asked which version you're doing. As I said earlier, the exhaust is the later style, but it's good if that's what you're building. As it happens, I just had to start another one yesterday, so here's a pic of the surgery required for removing the exhaust and doing a Six Day War version:



Here's the aforementioned kit by Tom Gannon. It was indeed more accurate, and you can see the shorter upper hull. The turret and turret welds were more accurate, but I found the suspension detail to be a little soft. The fuel can holders would have to have been replaced as well. I had three, all of which ended up like this one, which is not finished:

ah, i see what my confusion regarding the exhaust story is now. thanks for clarifying - i was starting to wonder what i was missing!

about the turret in those photos - is that not the AMX turret as opposed to the M-50 turret?

Yes. It was designed and built in France for Egypt. It's an M4A4 hull with an M4A2 engine deck, and an FL-10 turret. There's one at the Latrun Museum, pictures of which you can find online.

actully, and this is the issue with probally all of their HVSS kits (E8, M51,M50) is that the TRACK is TOO NARROW. If you pick up a set of AFV club tracks, you will see that the dml track is way too narrow. Once you mount the AFV club tracks, the fenders look fine.

Now, about that exaust...do go check out tom gannons book on IDF shermans, or look at that web page (somebody else posted the link). If you do a 1967 vehicle, you need to remove the louvers as well. The exaust basicly looked like the port side exaust on a standard sherman (M4A3).

Best bet for a M50 is to use the MP kit, replacing the suspension with either Dragon, Academy, or AFV club, and use AFV club tracks.

enjoy
Andy

Hey Gary,

check your track again...the AFV are surely at least 1.5mm wider than the DML stuff. Line up one edge of the pads with the DML. And I can prove it to you..try fitting those AFV club to a unmodified DML sprocket! (thats when I found out, and realized that they are different).

Maybe the finders are wide as well, however im not so sure the DML ones are as huge as folks think....maybe 1mm too wide.

I would be curous to see some AFV club track mounted on a sherman with formations fenders...

Now there is another possibillity...could it be the mounts for the suspension are off on the DML kit? Maybe they should be closer/farther from the hull?

here is some pics of a M51 I did..






This is with the AFV club track, and as you can see, the finders dont look too wide (though I replaced them with aluminum, they are the same size as the kit).

Here is a couple of pics of the real thing to get some proportion..







notice how the jerry can rack comes right up to the edge. Not sure how wide that is, but for eyeballs thats a good marker as jerry can racks tend to come pretty standard.

Mine might be 1mm too wide at most, which would make them 5mm...but the part that makes them look right is the track width.

Anybody near a HVSS sherman and can measure the finder width?


Andy

Ask and ye shall recieve! My task today was Centurion photos, and there was an M4A2 76mm HVSS sitting beside one of the Cents, so here's the scoop:

Fender width from hull side (including mounting strip) 7" or 178mm more or less (5.1mm 1:35) (bad angle in photo):


Total width fender rear lower hull to outside of fender 27"/686mm (19.6mm 1:35):


Front total width also close to 27" (fender bent a little):



And track width outside to outside of end connectors 23"/584mm (16.7mm 1:35):


So, if an M4A2 HVSS is close to the M50 (M4A4) fender, there you go. There is a real M50 about an hour and 1/2 away from me (in Olds, Alberta), but I won't be near it for a while.

Cheers,
Jim

If anyone's interested, I uploaded most of my M50 photos to my Webshots album here:
http://community.webshots.com/album/551636351tHgOkf
I'll have to check my Gannon tome to see what batch this would be. I would recommend the Formations HVSS idler mounts to replace the kit ones.

Cheers,
Jim

Thanks for the photos Jim, they are fantastic!
Also will be a big help for my VVSS M50 project I'll be doing
for the suez camp..

Cheers
Pedro