Hi all,

I've got some questions about this King Tiger captured by US forces:


Tiger II from 2.Kompanie/schwere Panzer Abteilung 506, captured by American troops and restored to running condition by Company B, 129th Ordnance Battalion by 15 December 1944.


- Has the tank been repainted in OD? (looks like it)
- On the other hand...the numbers on the side of the turret look like the original German ones!
- And the markings look like US stars on flags?
- Is that some sort of slogan on the mantle? If so, what does it say?
- Has anyone any other information on markings and camouflage?
- I can only see zim on the front of the turret...where did the rest of the zim go?
- Has this tank actually seen action in US service?
- Which US unit used the tank?

Any additional information is welcome! Also any informaiton about other captured Kings which have been put back into service by Allied & Soviet forces..

Thanks,
Martin

martin:

Just something I noticed about the pic. The star seems to be on some sort of material which is tied down to the front of the KT. There is also some zim on the top of the machine gun port on the frontal armor.

Sorry. Dont have any info on this beast. But this is a very cool pic

True, looks like some sort of flag. If you looks at the side of the turret, you can still what I believe is the German number of the tank (#11?)

Because of the old German numbers and the tied on US flags I think the KT has not been painted over in OD but I'm not 100% sure...

Martin

I think the King Tiger is from s.Pz.Abt. 506. My reference are Tiger's at the Front by Thomas L. Lentz and Battle of the Bulge by Concord publications.

- Has the tank been repainted in OD? (looks like it) It looks like three colour camos.

- On the other hand...the numbers on the side of the turret look like the original German ones! Yes. It's 2+11

- And the markings look like US stars on flags? I think so. I don't know the colour of the flag but I think the star is white.

- Is that some sort of slogan on the mantle? If so, what does it say? No. It reads "Dang mined". It is repeated on the right fender and loaders hatch.

- Has anyone any other information on markings and camouflage? See above.

- I can only see zim on the front of the turret...where did the rest of the zim go? It has zimmeritt all around. The picture in Lentz book shows clearly the zimmeritt on the glacis plate.

- Has this tank actually seen action in US service? Don't know.

- Which US unit used the tank? US 129th Ordnance Battalion. Captured near Geronsweiller on Dec 15, 1944.

Happy to help.

Thanks mate! That's the kind of anwsers I'm looking for!

I found another pic:

Should be the same tank!

I don't fully understand the slogan. "Dang mined"...what does it say/mean?

The pic you're talking about sounds interesting. Perhaps you could scan it an send it to me by email? If so, please send me a pm for my adress!

Thanks,
Martin

When taking the quote and running it threw babelfish (the best translator on the net. :-) :-) ) it spit out "Hired mined". Either the tank was disabled by a mine, perhaps a blown track, or it may have been boobie trapped.

Just a guess

Possibly "DANGER-MINED" ?
C.

Could be very well possible, but as David has a pic on which he can see the text......I'm interested what he thinks about this idea!

@ David: could this be true? I don't know how much you can see of the text on the picture!

Is there any information available on the camouflage of this tank? Can't see much of it on the pics!

Martin

Maybe so but the one written on the fender reads "DANG MINED" with arrow pointing up. The one on the mantlet is not very clear but the word "MINED" is underlined.

The warning "Dang Mined" was most likely "Danger Mined" and was written in chalk to warn GIs that the tank was either booby-trapped or had not been checked for booby-traps. The missing letters were probably worn off after the tank was pronounced safe.

Ok. I assume it was Danger Mined as it makes more sense.

Now about the camouflage of the tank. I can spot some camouflage on the lower front hull. There is a light patch of paint, probably dark yellow.

Does anyone know what camouflage this tank had? Can't find much on camoufage in the schwere Panzer Abteilung 506 myself.....

Edit: I found a colour plate of the 506 during the battle of Arnhem. Can I assume the camouflage would still be the same during the preperations for the Ardennes offensive?

The camouflage shows a King Tiger with Henschel turret, zimmerit and a 3-tone camouflage scheme with small patches of green and brown on a dark yellow base....

Martin

Here you go....



..enjoy.

Looks to me like number 11#. Great pic Dave

Great pic, thanks. Some interesting things...I can clearly see the zimmerit now, and also the camouflage. Looks like the 3-tone indeed.

What does the text to the left of "Dang mined" say?

@ David: how do you know the text is also painted on the loaders hatch? Maybe another picture?

@ Brian: Like David already said, it's 211, but the 2 is left of the German cross, behind the American soldier...

Martin

If I remember correctly, this tank was found by U.S. forces abandoned, and engineers of the 119th something ( Can't quite remember) put pieces of canvas with white stars over the german markings, to make it obviously captured. They then filled it up with fuel, and drove it a few miles before it finally conked out.


Another engineer group used a jagdtiger as a platform to attach telegraph wires for a few miles before it gave up also.

If the date on the photo is correct "15 December 1944"
my money would be on the original 3 color camo pattern used for the Ardennes Offensive as I don't think they would have had the time or desire to try and paint it olive drab.

That would fit with it being taken out by US forces or broke down and booy trapped and the warning left for other friendlies.

I agree, but still there were many different 3-tone camouflage schemes. I just want to know which one I should pick :-)

As far as I can tell from the pic, the camouflage seems to consist of small patches of green and brown?

Kinda like the 3-tone the s.Pz.Abt 506 used in Arnhem:



Is it possible the tanks kept this camouflage, or would they be painted over again for the offensive?

I think not because the Germans were short of everything, including paint. And the camouflage would be ok for the Ardennes offensive I guess?

@ Airwarrior: I doubt whether the tank was used in action. Your explanation sounds logical! I like the story of the Jagdtiger as well :-)

Martin

I never said it was used in action. They merely drove it a few miles when recovering it. The father of a member of an armor club I vist was one of the engineers, and the member told the story to all of us. He even has pictures of it being filled. It may be a different tank however, tgough I suspect these are picrures of the one I suggested.

I know you never said that. Maybe I was not clear in my reply, but I was trying to say it is likely what you said!

Martin -

An interesting subject and should prove to be a great build. Go with your idea of using the "3-tone the s.Pz.Abt 506 used in Arnhem" as those surviving KTs were used by '506' in Ardennes. Being a "Heer" unit, '506' kind of played a 'secondary role' to Peiper's sSSPzAbt 501 where the newer KTs with more of the "Ambush" camo scheme (also with no zimmerit) ended up. The '501' had a mix of camo as some KTs originally destined for '509' went to the '501'. Also, there was a KT (#332) from the sSSPzAbt 501 that was abandoned and taken (drove to a side road after freeing frozen tracks) by the First Army 463rd Ordnance Co. For those interested, this is a great site for '501' KTs and restoration info on #332.
http://www.ss501panzer.com/Saga_of_332.htm

Anyway, go with your '506' camo idea and keep us posted.

Blade48mrd

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your reply. I will keep you all posted but first I've got to make some ehr....arrangements in my financial status, because I'd like a 1/16 RC Tiger II for this project. Just a bit more expensive than 1/35....

Oh well, money is made for use right?

Ok, forget what I said then. When I read your initial reply, it sounded like you thought I said it was actually used by the engineers.

Sorry for misinterpreting your mesage

Sorry for my bad English