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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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M1Abrams TAGS & CSAMM Upgrade
AngryDog
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Singapore / 新加坡
Joined: March 27, 2004
KitMaker: 1,114 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 24, 2006 - 10:13 PM UTC
Hi guys,

Firstly, for those of you who've helped me with the other Abrams info, your effort is not in vain. I will be releasing those sets but some time after dragon releases their abrams kit.

In the meanwhile, I'm working on a limited run "niche" kit for the Abrams instead. This will be the TAGS and CSAMM upgrade kit. The kit will also include the .50 cal and M240 machineguns (a better version that is).

Please let me know what you guys think. And if you're interested in such a kit, please respond to this post.

Thank you very very much!

Nick
Epi
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Texas, United States
Joined: December 22, 2001
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Posted: Monday, April 24, 2006 - 10:32 PM UTC
Nick,
The track you show in the second picture is definatley a 1st CAV or 4th ID track being that they are the only ones that have A2's. But from there I am stuck, but then you might already know that.

HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Monday, April 24, 2006 - 10:33 PM UTC
Can help a little with the unit IDs, sort of. The M1A1 in the first pic is from 3ID, based on the unit patches of the soldiers. Its bumper #s would be something (A, B, C) 33 and 34, based on the red stripes and their numbers on the barrels. The M1A2 is fro 4ID, who are there now. Can't tell what Bn's they are from though. Sorry, no further info. Looks like they will be some nice kits. I would be interseted in them.
badger66
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Texas, United States
Joined: April 09, 2005
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Posted: Monday, April 24, 2006 - 11:26 PM UTC
1 67?
ShermiesRule
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Michigan, United States
Joined: December 11, 2003
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Posted: Monday, April 24, 2006 - 11:27 PM UTC
Can't help you with any of the specifis but I just have to say I'm impressed with your research!!
Ric_Cody
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Georgia, United States
Joined: May 22, 2005
KitMaker: 299 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 24, 2006 - 11:53 PM UTC
from what I can see in the pics, the .50 cals with the handgrips missing are .50 cals that are used on the M1A1's, those have the M10 charging handle on the left side of the receiver. They appear to have a selenoid similar to the .50 cals on the RWS for the STRYKERS.
The .50 cals with the handgrips are the style used on the M1A2's and A2 SEPs, of course these .50 cals which have the charging handle on the right side. So since that charging handle is on the right side they would have to mount the selenoid on the left side. These selenoids appear to be a little diffrent from the RWS selenoid which have to be timed. These may be the newer selenoids which dont have to be timed.
Also in the second pic the bumper # is C44, this tells me that this is a straight CAV Tank that may be out of the 3rd ACR which also have A2's
That is what I have come up with.

Ric
sarge18
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: November 09, 2002
KitMaker: 272 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 12:01 AM UTC
If you are around Ft. Knox from 15 May through 19 May, stop by the Armor Warfighting Symposium (used to be called Armor Conference). Some of the exhibitors are going to be a modeler's dream, including the manufacturer of the CSAMM mount, and several Abrams TUSK variants (M1A1, M1A2 SEP), as well as a whole host of things. Stryker MGS is supposed to be on display on the 16th, Stryker RV will be displayed through out, as well as the CROWS, a whole slew of items, etc, etc, as well as the briefings regarding the upcoming changes to ammunition and whatnot.

Jed Sargent
Ric_Cody
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Georgia, United States
Joined: May 22, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 05:42 AM UTC
I will be at Knox next Wednesday night, early Thursday Morning, but I am not sure if I will be able to get to the conference. But I will try my damndest cause I know the GD guys who doing the MGS.
sarge18
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: November 09, 2002
KitMaker: 272 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 07:16 AM UTC
It's going to be interesting. Only guy I know in the MGS world at the moment is John Wagner, the TSM rep, but have been siphoning information on a regular basis from TSM Abrams. Had an opportunity to go do the testing of the Abrams TUSK in Aberdeen, but the LTC I work for wouldn't let me go. We were a tad shy in staffing. DRAT!

I'll tell you, though, it'll be interesting to see a CSAMM mount on an M1A2 SEP with CROWS. Talk about bristling weapons! On our "list of vehicles and devices", we have a request from the Program Manager to provide on SEP to mount it up on.

So what be you headed to Knox for, Ric?

Jed
2CAVTrooper
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Alabama, United States
Joined: October 21, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 07:21 AM UTC
So that's what those tabs on the gun mantle are used for.

I wonder what else the designers had planned on mounting there?
2CAVTrooper
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Alabama, United States
Joined: October 21, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 07:31 AM UTC
Angry Dog,

As far as the difference in the brackets, stuff like that is typical for military gear.

You usually have several manufacturers making stuff like that, and they're given the specs and they come up with their own designs. That's all that is 2 designs for something serving the same purpose.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 07:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So that's what those tabs on the gun mantle are used for.

I wonder what else the designers had planned on mounting there?
They were put there to assist in removing the main gun. The Army just decided to give them additional purposes like the .50 cal.
AngryDog
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Singapore / 新加坡
Joined: March 27, 2004
KitMaker: 1,114 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 12:15 PM UTC
Thanks for the replies



Epi and Ric_Cody
So the M1A2 is either from 1st CAV or 3rd ACR?
The only other markings I see is the 4 black rings on the fume extractor, 4th gun tank right?

I've gone thru some pics I have of the .50 cals on the M1A1 and A2s, aside from the M1A2s obviously different styled handles and mount to TCs cupola as compared to the M1A1, the changing handles are on different sides, which explains the different sides the seleniod is adapted to...I believe.
Figure that would mean that I've to offer the M1A1 and M1A2 version of the .50cal on CSAMM.

Sarge18 and Ric_Cody,
I'm 10 000 miles away, Damn! wish I could fly up to Ft Knox!
Are tourist allowed there anyway?
It would be excellent if you're taking photos. it's definately a modeler's dream as there's so little photos available on the CSAMM mount, CROWS, and TUSK variants. Theres only 1 general pic of the TUSK upgrade. If you're taking pics..any chance you can get a couple shots of the bottom of the bussel rack -below the UAAPU of the M1A2 SEP....?


2CAVTrooper,

Quoted Text

designs for something serving the same purpose.
Understood, thanks.


So are you guys interested in the CSAMM and TAGS as a kit?
Erik67
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Buskerud, Norway
Joined: July 31, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 01:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

So are you guys interested in the CSAMM and TAGS as a kit?


Yes!!!

Erik
Epi
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Texas, United States
Joined: December 22, 2001
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 05:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

So are you guys interested in the CSAMM and TAGS as a kit?


Ugh, let me think about this. OF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nick,
Don't forget that Gino mentioned that the track above is from 4th ID.
sarge18
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: November 09, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 06:17 PM UTC
Ft Knox Armor Warfighting Symposium 2006 is open to all. I'm clearing that week, but will try to snag what I can.

Would love to see a good accurate bit of add-ons.

Jed
AngryDog
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Singapore / 新加坡
Joined: March 27, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 06:47 PM UTC
I do hope that more images can be found for the Abrams with TAGS & CSAMM in Iraq, would very much like to get the decals done as well. I've googled and yahooed and tried the other search engines, not had any luck besides the pics I posted here.

Sarge18
Looking forward to seeing your pics from Ft Knox..heh heh..


Quoted Text

Would love to see a good accurate bit of add-ons.


What add-ons are you referring to?
sarge18
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: November 09, 2002
KitMaker: 272 posts
Armorama: 267 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 08:58 PM UTC
From having tanked for the last bit of my life, anything you add on to a stock tank is considered an "add-on" to me.

Jed
Tankleader
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Virginia, United States
Joined: April 29, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 09:10 PM UTC
Angry Dog,
I was in Falluja as an advisor to the Iraqi Army at the time, (funny since I was a Marine Tanker). Anyway, my best friend was the 1stSgt of one of the two Marine Tank Companies. They took some old gun shields from Humvees and adapted them for the tank. They also got some of the hands on sissor mounts from the LAV guys and modified their tanks with those. When I visited their ramp (Tank Park) in Camp Falluja there were three different style loaders machine gun mounts available.

Tanks
Andy
AngryDog
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Singapore / 新加坡
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 10:48 PM UTC
OK I understand "add-on" now.


Tankleader, it's excellent to learn that beside the few photos over the internet, there's more tanks which added those humvee shields and scissor mounts!


The biggest hurdle is the lack of reference material on those unit markings of the tanks that added these upgrades.
I really hope to achieve a complete set, which means either including the decals with the kit or having them abled to be purchased separately.

Looking forward to more of your input guys....

"TANKS"
Nick
SimonW
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: September 18, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 11:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

So are you guys interested in the CSAMM and TAGS as a kit?


YES please!
bison126
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Correze, France
Joined: June 10, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 01:01 AM UTC
Hi Nick,
it looks like the brackets for the MCD the Marine Abrams usually mount.

PS: nice M1 pics collection thanks for sharing
olivier
Tankleader
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Virginia, United States
Joined: April 29, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 01:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

OK I understand "add-on" now.

My previous post on this matter:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/67317&page=1

I didn't want to bring on too many questions at one go,but
since we're on the topic.. of add-ons... I'll expand more here,
my intention is indeed to release the following sets particularly for the Abrams :

1)TAGS + CSAMM.
2)TAGS.
3) Scissor mount + M240B ( with added hand guard to barrel ).
4) M240B ( with added hand guard to barrel ) with original mount.
5) M240 minus the lower portion on original mount..pic below says it..

There seems to be another type of mount at the base of it...anyone can clarify on this?

Tankleader, it's excellent to learn that beside the few photos over the internet, there's more tanks which added those humvee shields and scissor mounts!

Is it possible to get photos or info on the unit markings of those particular marine tanks where your best friends' at?
What are those 3 different style loaders machine gun mounts? Any photos?

The biggest hurdle is the lack of reference material on those unit markings of the tanks that added these upgrades.
I really hope to achieve a complete set, which means either including the decals with the kit or having them abled to be purchased separately.

Looking forward to more of your input guys....

"TANKS"
Nick


Nick,
I'll see what I can do, here is a better picture from my Gallery that shows a different angle of one of your pictures above.



Tanks
Andy
Tankleader
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Virginia, United States
Joined: April 29, 2003
KitMaker: 718 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 01:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

There seems to be another type of mount at the base of it...anyone can clarify on this?


"TANKS"
Nick


Nick,
Those are the mounting brackets that the MCD (Missile Counter Measure Device) mount on.

Tanks
Andy Elesky
junglejim
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 18, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 04:06 AM UTC
I'd be interested in any accessory bits you come out with. Have fun casting them! Looking good.

Jim
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