Hey all, I was wondering, we've all seen all kinds of stuff piled on, hung off of, and strapped to modern fighting vehicles, but what kinds of things would NOT be allowed to be carried on a tank, Bradley, Hummer, or Stryker? I'm currently working on a 1/35th USMC M1A1HA for a diorama of the 2003 Iraq invasion and also have an M1025 Humvee in the same scale, and when looking at pics of other models here, I've seen some things I didn't expect to see, including what looked like an AT-4 anti-tank rocket on the turret roof of one Abrams kit. Would such weapons be allowed to be carried by the crew of the real tanks, and what other items would they be forbidden from having with them? Look forward to hearing from you all, and wish you well.

Typically things that could explode are not usually hung on the sides, or turret baskets. Otherwise all is fair game. Tanke a look at the photos stored on this site for ideas on stowage.

To be honest Chris I think it's got to be down to the individual. I was in the infantry late 80's /early 90's and was constantly moaned at by my CSM for non standard webbing ( I tended to throw away the issue stuff as it was crap and build my own from personal purchase stuff). There are no hard and fast rules really applying to the subject. I know the US has always had better resources kitwise but if you're in an AFV you don't have to carry it and soldiers being soldiers will always...err...liberate stuff that may be useful. Personally I wouldn't put AT stuff on top of a tank but who knows.RPG's as souvenirs?

We'd strap AT-4's (or Vipers if in training) to the gun ring on our hummers........Comes in handy when you come around a curve and there is a "BRDM" or something on the side of the road

LAW rockets were part of our combat load, on our M60-A3s. along with mines and anything else we could carry.

Chris:

I am not as knowledgeable on Marine tanks as Army tanks, but in OIF1 the 3rd ID did have tankers carrying AT-4s on their turrets. Most TCs also had an M4 handy as well. These items were at hand on the turret roof for basically the same reason; close-in urban fighting was expected, and it was felt that it would be impracticle to expect that all targets would be picked up with the main gun or even the MGs. It was felt that one could take out a threat quicker w/ an AT-4 rather than trying to slew the main gun around fast enough in a tight spot. Or, if the gunner was otherwise engaged the TC could still deal w/ a second threat with the At-4. It was common for Humvees to have them strapped to the rear portion of the roofs too.

When I was at the NTC I noticed Javelins on the roofs of the Strykers of 3/2. The recon guys especially liked to carry Javelins in case they ran into something while scouting, but I also saw them on the ICVs.

Here is a photo of my co-author's tank as they were preparing for the border crossing in OIF1. This is half of the platoon's set-up; the other two tanks stuff was on his other fender.



Bob

Note all the scratches on the paint. That is a whole nother topic, but many have the impression the Abrams paint does not chip. But it must be remembered these tanks went through heavy training going back to October or November of 02, so they saw plenty of service before the war even started.

What are those red & black canisters supposed to be? I'm assuming they have something to do with the AT-4's, but not sure what.

Grenades....... they ship them in a Cardboard tube.....

The five small canisters on the left are Frag Grenades, the 4 and 5 taller canisters on the right are Smoke Grenades, and the red canisters are Incinderary Grenades which look sort of like smoke grenades but are red.

Thanks for the good first hand info on the turret load out. For a second there I thought someone was stocking up on Model Model OD paint in the rattle cans.

Shaun

I see a lot of modelers place spare main gun ammunition on the exterior of the vehicle. Many times the rounds are piled up like so many pick-up-sticks.

In actuality, main gun ammo (or artillery rounds) are carried in follow on support vehicles and would not be uncrated until ready to be uploaded onto the tank or selp-propelled gun.

Uncased rounds would not be something you would find on the sides of the vehicle or piled on top and strapped down.

Sabot...maybe.

I have not seen any modern stuff like that, but in Korea and Especially in WWII there are a fair number of pictures with artillery pieces overloaded with shells. It was strictly against SOP, but they did it any way (some were ordered to). The assumption is that noone would WANT spare ammo on the exterior of a M1...but some yahoos may have done it, especailly in the bustle rack.

Oh, and I have seen the left over cardboard shipping tubes for main gun ammo used as storage devices in the bustle rack as well...

I challenge you to find any tanker today that knows what end of the round to stick into the breach who would consider piling extra combustible casing 120mm rounds on top of their tank a good idea.

As for WW2, Korea, and even Vietnam, not the same situations nor same equipment used today. I agree that there are plenty of situations in those wars where main gun rounds are piled up ready for use like artillery preps and anticipated attacks.

Times have changed. We aren't even the same Army as we were in the late 80s or early 90s.

Rob,

Would the exception be 1 or 2 of those metal tubes that were used to store war maps? In Germany, each of the tracks in the mortar platoon had 2 map tubes. I think they were 105 or 120mm main gun cannisters. I don't recall where the tankers strapped them.

Paul

Those were 105mm artillery cans that we used for maps. Yes, each tank had one either strapped to the bustle rack or stuffed in the bustle rack. My point was uncased ammo rounds. I never mentioned anything about ammo cases, ammo tubes, ammo boxes, ammo crates, ammo cans or even spent main gun round casings. There are multiple uses for the empties of many of those items and that be found on a modern AFV.

I was trying to answer the post, "Stuff that would NOT be on a modern AFV".

Doh. I must have focused on 'uncrated' instead of 'uncased'.

I guess I've been lucky enough to never see a model with uncased ammo laying around. That would be really strange.

I was not saying I COULD prove anyone had piled ammo on the top of their tank, nor that they would. Only that some yahoo who probably DOES NOT know what end the shell goes in might do it. Ok, you might not want to model THAT particular tank.

And as for artillery pieces loaded with piles of ready to fire ammo...well, Gun Bunnies are a very special breed. :-) THAT does not surprise me. (Well, also the fact that GOOD gun batteries go through ammo fast...)

The only ammo I ever kept on top of my tank was 50 cal and m240. the 105s and the 120s were kept inside. Never uncased on the outside.

Heh, I was an 82C before becoming a 19D.

Like Rob said, this would only be seen when tanks or guns were being used as set-piece artillery and NOT if they were on the move.

As far as what would not be carried on a modern AFV, well, I think that depends a lot on the unit. Some units have a strictly enforced load list and plan and others ... well, aren't as strac.

I once built a model of a friend's son's M1IP in Korea. The son's gunner sent a bunch of photos for me to use as reference and I laughed whe I looked at the stuff stashed in the bustle rack. Of course, it had the ammo-tube map cases, spare tracks, the 20mm ammo can "tool boxes" and the crew's ruck sacks, but it also had a grappling hook, a toilet brush, a Coleman cooler and a few 12-packs of soda. That was just for a few days in the field -- I can't imagine what these guys would take to war. And I won't even start on the stuff we used to haul out to the field in my old National Guard SP artillery battery...

That toilet brush was normally used to scrub the mud off of your wet weather boots before climbing back on the tank.

That makes sense for a stiff bristle brush (in fact , Gary (White4) told me the same thing once at a KC AMPS meeting), but this was one of those whimpy, almost lacey-looking swab-head jobs. I modelled it with a scrap of wedding veil material and a Evergreen strip handle. Doubt it would be much good against mud, but I assume it was used to clean something. Any ideas?

May just be me, but where would you find a grappling hook useful? All I can think of is to put a spotter/lookout on top of a building, and Im sure if the guy was resourceful enough he could easily find other ways, or a place that leaves him with more reliable escape options.