Roger, but my point was that too many builders get caught in the trap that if you build something a way that deviates from the accepted "norm", those that have not been there or experienced it, think you have no idea what you're doing. There seems to be the idea that if you are not one of the "good ol boys", and build according to the traditional methods you dont stand a chance at a show. Not that the awards are all that important, because they aren't, I don't mind criticism but be able to back up what you what you are criticizing. I understand that each unit develops their own SOP's, those that I mentioned were just some of the ones we had. I was just hoping to provide another option, another way to look at things. Maybe my choice of words were wrong. I have just noticed through the various shows I have attended that more attention is paid to the "standard techniques" than to the accuracy. So not all windows are either clean or dirty. It also depends on the particular OIF. During OIF III we paid more attention to what we thought we saw on the side of the road than perhaps those operating during OIF I or II. I just ask that if you happen to be a judge during a show, what may appear to be wrong, might be exactly the way it was.