Hi all,

Who can explain to me how the British markings worked in World War 2. I understand the insignia of divisions like the charging bull of the 11th armoured division, but how about the other markings.

Think about the numbers, colour codes etc. What does "51" in a red square mean for instance?

Thanks.
Martin

Hi there Martin.

I havn't done many british vehicles yet but I have done some research and I'll try and shine a little light on the subject.. This information is from the book "D-Day to Berlin, Armor camouflage and markings of the U.S. British and german armies June 1944 to May 1945, by Terence Wise" a very interesting book that I recommend to anyone interested in the subjects. Out of print but can be sometimes found on Amazon used books or e-bay..

Unit Indentification symbols.

All formations down to brigade level were identified by a formation sign which normal took the form of a badge painted on a coloured backround 8.5 inches wide by 9.5 inches high. This was usually painted on the front and rear of the vehicles most often on the left hand side. It was sometimes combined with the arm of service sign.

Arm of Service sign.

This was also most often found painted on the left side of the front and rear of the vehicles. These patches identified by colour the type of unit. (also sometimes refered to as arm of service flash)

The colors were...

HQ including Medical, M.P., Postal, and Intelligence units.. Black
RASC ... red over green divided diagonally top right to bottom left.
Signals... white over blue divided horizontally
Engineers.... light blue.
REME... blue/yellow/red divided horizontally
RAOC... blue/red/blue divided vertically
Royal Artillery, red over blue divided horizontally
Recce regiments... green over blue divided horizontally
Senior Infantry Brigade of Infantry Division...... Red
Junior Armoured brigade of Armoured division and 2nd Infantry Brigade of Infantry Division, Green
Junior Infantry Brigade of Infantry Division .. brown.

Formations higher than division had a two inch wide white bar added as a distinguishing mark.. Corps across the top, Army across the bottom Army Group diagonally top right to bottom left, GHQ diagonally top left to bottom right. The diagonal bars were broken at the center where they crossed unit serial numbers.

Individual units within a division or higher formation were identified by a unit serial number.

(a 51 in a red square means Senior Infantry Brigade of Infantry Division with a vehicle serial number of 51 which according to the book stands for 3 armoured Regts.... I think)

Tactical signs

Typically painted on both sides of the turret or sometimes on the rear if it was a AFV without a turret.

HQ was a diamond
A Squadron was a triangle
B by a square
C by a circle
and D vy a vertical rectangle

all but the last was outline only

Troop numbers 1 to 4 and vehicle letters A to D were placed within these signs I.E. 1, 1B, 2C...

These signs were ina clolr determined by the seniority of the regiment within its armoured brigade..

Senior Regiment .. Red
2nd yellow
3rd blue
4th green

Registration Numbers

on softskins reg numbers were officially painted in white on one side of the bonnet most often the right. but sometimes they were on both sides. and sometimes on the door.. AFV's generally carried the reg numbers on the hull sides, sometimes repeated on the hull front and rear.

The reg numbers were a prefic letter followed by a 4 to 7 digit number

Prefix's
A.. Ambulances
C. Motorcycles
E..Engineer Vehicles
F. Armored cars
L.. Lorries over 15cwt
M. Cars and some scout cars.
P. Amphibians
S . Self Propelled Guns
T. Tanks
V. Vans
X. Trailers
Z. turcks up to and including 15cwt's

Hope this helps some..

Hi Martin,

Welcome to the world of the British Army/Armed Services The vehicle markings can be very confusing.

You have Corps/Divisional Signs
Individual Unit Markings
Tactical Markings
Vehicle WD Numbers
and other markings like shipping signs and vehicle name/weightds etc.

For instance:

[img]https://gallery.kitmaker.net/data/16625/P6170006.img]

This is a picture of my Firefly. It has the Divisional sign of the Ever Open Eye of the Guards Armoured Division.
It supports the Arm of Service sign Red/53 which denotes the unit. 2IG (Armd)
On the side it will have the Blue Triange that denoted the Squadron Number in this case 1 Sqn. These might appear on the Turret as well.
It has the WD number on the front and back and thsee appear in different places depending upon the unit, sometimes on the side of the vehicle

It may or may or may not have a vehicle name painted onto the front and side of the individual vehicle depending upon what was the Standard Operating Procedure of that unit. On the back it may display a radio or individual call sign say 11A.

How units were marked depended upon how senior they were within the structure of the Brisish Army and that depended upon when they were orininally formed.

So you have Senior and Junior Regiments, Armoured, Infantry, Artillery and Supporting Units.

To add a little more confusion you also have Corps/Divisional Markings that denoted that a vehicle belonged to a particulat Divisional HQ of say 30 Corps. Plus the fact that new units were often given odd numbers to make the enemy believe that there were 16 Regiments or 30 Regiments of this or that, when infact there were only one or two, same with Divisional markings.

I'm sure I will have gotten something wrong here but my advice is to start at unit level and understand the marking of one unit, that can normally be applied to other units of a similar type. So if you work ut the markings of an armoured unit then these wil be the same for other armoured units although the markings may be placed on different locations depending upon the individual unit 'habits'. (SOP).

When you get into artillery it is even more fun.

The MAFVE site is very useful for a lot of armoured vehicles and their AOS (Arm of Service).

I'm not at my own computer at the moment so cannot post you some links that might help.

Remember that unit marking changed as units got switch around the theatre of war they were fighting in so divisional signs are appropriate for that unit at that time.

The Key lies in understanding the seniority of the Regiment you are dealing with and what it's position within the divisional structure it was located in is and that my friend takes a bit of research


If I have got something wrong here it will be pointed out. If my memory hasn't totally gone The Navy is the Senior Service folloiwed by the Army and The Royal Air Force.

Have fun, I'll be folllowing this post as it is a minefield and there are those who know much more about it than me.

Cheers

Al

Edit: Sorry the picture didn't load but as I'm reading all the commands in Chinese at the moment I'm not too surprised!!!!! LOL< LOL

Hi Martin,

As Allan has said you've opened a massive can of worms with this one :-) next thing you'll want to know about Shermans' AOS and TAC signs :-) :-)

If I can link this in, Armoured Acorn, is so far the best web-site I've found:

http://www.armouredacorn.com/Reference/BAM/Default.htm

No doubt there will be shed-loads of information comming from this thread, or at least I hope so as I'm still trying to work them out. LOL. LOL

Cheers

Craig

Greetings all,

In case anyone hasn't picked it up yet Derek's RA Site is EXCELLENT.

Highly Recommended

Cheers

Al