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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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My impressions on the Tamiya Char B1 build
shado67
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Texas, United States
Joined: October 16, 2003
KitMaker: 220 posts
Armorama: 215 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 12:09 PM UTC
I was taking a break from building my DML SU-100 letting the paint dry a bit and decided to dive into the new Char B1 tank that has been staring at me from my shelf since I picked it up a few days ago.

I just finished the building/construction part of the Tamiya Char B1 kit. Sorry for not having photos yet, but I will post some of the "before and after" phase of painting in the next few days. I like the finished product but had a few questions lingering after the build. I would be interested in any comments from others who have built this beast.

I like this kit, good detail, interesting subject....and workable link tracks (more on this in a moment).

My goal was to build this OOTB with no PE (which nearly blinded me on my last 2 projects). I am not even sure if anyone has any PE forthis kit yet but honestly I dont think it needs any.

The kit went together without any real problems. I did have some fit issues with the lower hull that required a bit of filler in a few seams. I think I used more putty on this kit than any other Tamiya kit released in the last 10 years. but as i stated it was very little compared to other makers kits.

It has lots of nice rivet details, hatches and panels and overall excellent details and fidly bits (beware the tweezer launch, it was a real problem for me).

Now a few gripes
1. First step is assembling 32 Road wheels of whcih 16 each are placed on a "rail" for mounting to the lower hull. Can you say TEDIOUS....The wheels do not snap into the rail and you must pick up the raild to mount it to the lower hull. This required a balancing act with more than one spill forcing a restart. I just think they could have engineered that step a little easier....maybe you did not have the same issues I did at this step.

2. 75mm main gun - This was put together using no less than 3 poly caps. When you mount the gun with no glue, as they instruct, it leaves a lot of sideways play and wiggle and overall a loose fit. Also the gun is molded in halves and has a nasty seam down the middle that needs to be filled. At this point I realized how spoiled I was with aluminum barrels form my last few projects. Overall I think they could have done a better job on the gun tube, at least put some rifling in the tube?

3. My next area of griping - the upper hull. Before you start work, you must turn it upside down and drill out no less than 26 1mm holes for attaching topside details in the coming steps. The holes are for attaching the topside track runners, rails and other details. Also, there are 2 locations in 2 different steps that have you remove rivet details for a topside part to fit. OK, I know that sometimes you have to drill holes for building certain options but these had to be built for ANY version you were building. I have no idea why Tamiya would not have the holes pre drilled this was the most puzzling aspect of this kit. I could find no variations that might require these fittings not to be incorporated therefore needing the holes filled.

4. Lower Hull plate - Sqaure cutouts leaving holes in the floor and what looks like motorization fittings......this is odd for a kit of this generation and seems to be a lapse in design by big T. Even if they come out with a motorized version they usually close in or have covering pieces over the mechanization holes like on the M-26 Pershing.

5. Last gripe - a real basic figure with soft detail and seams. It just feels liek they rushed this part of the kit. Looks no better than a Tamiya figure from 20 years ago.

OK now for my favorite part of the kit - the Link Tracks These were awsome. I really liked this part of the kit. These make up for any grief I had with the kit earlier. They are packed in a bag like "Magic Tracks" each one already cut off a sprue. They required no or little clean up. They are crisply molded and best of all - they snap together!!

Now for the record and as a matter of disclosure, I HATE individual Track links. I buy or use rubberband tracks whenever possible or buy the expensive AM stuff like Model Kasten. Even MK tracks can be super tedious.

That is my primary fear and loathing of individual track links - they are so tedious and nerve racking. My hats off to you guys who can bang them out in a couple of hours without going crazy and pulling your hair out. Tracks should not take 40-60% of the build hours of a kit.....

These tracks went together in no less than 10 minutes - 61 links per side - no kidding. They are only awaiting a paint job. Workable indy links have been around a long time. MK and Frui to name a few, but they are also tedious and time consuming - ever work wth the tiny plastic pins that push into the side of each link and then you have to glue a guide horn on? - and thats one link.

I have wondered for years as my stash of DML kits has grown increasing larger why someone does not make an easy click together workable track set for their kits. I know WWII production does them in resin, but has limited options and cost nearly as much as a kit. I Think Tamiya will get the attention of the other manufacturers (pay close attention here DML) and we should see more of these in the future. Now only if Tamiya will go back and make workable clickable sets for all their Tigers and Panthers and Cromwells, and.....so on and maybe even retrofits for DML kits (he says with both fingers crossed).

Anyway, overall I like the kit - I built it over about 4 nights - and will start painting later this week. It has a few nitpick issues but looks great when done. I dont think its engineering is going to wow people the way DML's 3-in-1 kits like the initial Tiger Is are doing, but I really think the clickable tracks are going to make an impact in the rest of the industry. This is to cool and too simple not to be doing on any kit in the future.
AlanL
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 04:21 PM UTC
Hi Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to give us your perspective on this kit. It's on my buy list but way in the future, but nice to have a builders point of view. The tracks sound cool.

Cheers

Al
Alpenflage
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Massachusetts, United States
Joined: May 21, 2003
KitMaker: 1,120 posts
Armorama: 1,002 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 06:20 PM UTC
Mike. I'm currently building the Tamiya Char B1 kit as well. I really like how this kit goes together, and its about time that a manufacturer came out with a good Char B in injection. Let me tell you how I made out compared to you.

1) I will agree with you on the roadwheels. 32 2-part small roadwheels with that rail system was a bit tedious. I dry fitted everything, and put all the roadwheels together and let them dry overnight before installing them. I found if I took time with it, it came out fine.

2) 75mm sponson gun. I had no fit problems at all. The seamline on the barrel is almost invisible on mine, and Tamiya thin liquid glue and careful sanding with very fine grit sand paper took care of it. All the other components need to be dry-fitted before gluing.

3) The 26 holes wernt a pain, it was just another step. Most of those holes are needed for assembly. A good exercise in pinvise use

4) I question those open holes on the floorplate as well. Not sure why they are there, but nothing that cant be fixed.

5) The figure isnt that bad, but its not that great either. Maybe Tamiya (or someone else) will release a better WWII French tank crew.

6) The track links are a breeze. Best set of individual track links I have ever put together (snap fit too !).

As for my Char B1, I'm at the point of painting. I dont own a digicam, but maybe I can have a buddy snap a few before and after shots. I started a Char B thread here a few weeks ago and that can be seen here:
Verdun II

So far I'm having a blast building the Tamiya Char B1 bis. I havnt finished a kit in quite some time, but I'm determined with this

Cheers !!

Robert
Drader
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Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 06:28 PM UTC
Having looked at mine, but not started building it yet, the two markings on the hull floor are there to be opened up if you want to bolt the model to a diorama base. The M26 has the same thing.

It is a pity that the commander figure is so anaemic, but at least we have a figure wearing breeches and puttees instead of the eternal salopettes.
HONEYCUT
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Victoria, Australia
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 4,002 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 07:03 PM UTC
Gday Mike thanks for the kit break down...
As for the figure, I'm not too surprised... Although in my www perusal I'm sure there have been a company or two that have already released resin French tankers to compliment the Char...
Cheers
Brad
ericadeane
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 28, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 07:04 PM UTC
I'm about 80% finished with a full AMS, rivet counting job on mine. My sample required very little seam filling. Really the only place I can recall is the vertical seam on the fring right corner of the driver's armor and the vertical 75mm howtizer housing. As for the 26 holes that need to be drilled out, my only guess is that it's to allow the real AMS freaks to accurately mount the upper sponson track bumbers in two pieces (like the real thing) rather than one piece. The road wheels? I didn't bother to barely clean any of them once I realized that they were invisible. The only ones I really took care with are the frontmost and rearmost ones. The others I just slapped together and slathered with liq cement.

With so many photos of survivors on the internet, it's been an easy template to super detail and add accurate parts.

BTW, the three rectangular holes are there because the Saumur one (Rhone) has them. Whether or not they should be open like that is doubtful but Tamiya was true to their example...
shado67
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Texas, United States
Joined: October 16, 2003
KitMaker: 220 posts
Armorama: 215 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 07:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm about 80% finished with a full AMS, rivet counting job on mine. My sample required very little seam filling. Really the only place I can recall is the vertical seam on the fring right corner of the driver's armor and the vertical 75mm howtizer housing. ...



The seams I specifically had to fill were the bottom part where the Glacis meets the lower hull plate, the 75mm gun and the commanders coupoal/turret/periscope on top of the turret. This comes in 2 halves split down the middle when the actual coupoal/turret looks to have been cast as one piece (as best I can tell from photos).

I am hoping for a better french tank crew. The side door allows good view for a partial interior so maybe one is int he works for AM.
Moezilla
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Texas, United States
Joined: June 01, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 09:00 PM UTC
I have to second those track links, they are awesome. I don't have the kit but one of the guys in our club here was putting them together last meeting. knowing I was having a very hard time with the 'Magic Tracks' he showed me putting all his track runs in minutes. Needless to say I was jealous, here he has this excellent track going together in a few minutes while I've spent hours on my Magic Tracks. lol If only Dragon would learn from that, I'd pay extra for snap together, workable links.
StukeSowle
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Washington, United States
Joined: November 08, 2002
KitMaker: 599 posts
Armorama: 357 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 09:04 PM UTC
Just some blogs of this kit over at PlanetArmor to give further impressions of the kit. I'd love to get my hands on one but I have waaaaayyyyyy too many unfinished kits right now!

http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2287

http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2268

ericadeane
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 28, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 09:22 PM UTC
Thnx for those planet armor links. I've been corresponding w/Andrew Hall on his build. I believe that the six bolts atop the commander's cupola should be recessed bolts. I've not seen any photos where they sit proud. Andrew also says that the casting nos. on the left turret wall shouldn't be there for the Char B1. It's a copy off of the Saumur's "Rhone" which actually has the slightly different turret from a Somua-35 atop of it. All photos I've seen of wartime Char B1 bis turrets and the other survivors show castinng nos. on the turret roof, centered on the front sloping armor.

HTH
shado67
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Texas, United States
Joined: October 16, 2003
KitMaker: 220 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 14, 2006 - 03:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thnx for those planet armor links. I've been corresponding w/Andrew Hall on his build. I believe that the six bolts atop the commander's cupola should be recessed bolts. I've not seen any photos where they sit proud. Andrew also says that the casting nos. on the left turret wall shouldn't be there for the Char B1. It's a copy off of the Saumur's "Rhone" which actually has the slightly different turret from a Somua-35 atop of it. All photos I've seen of wartime Char B1 bis turrets and the other survivors show castinng nos. on the turret roof, centered on the front sloping armor.

HTH



Wow!! talk about a rivet counting obsession.....I think the kit is good as is but I really like Andrew's effort. Far to much for my sanity.
StukeSowle
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Washington, United States
Joined: November 08, 2002
KitMaker: 599 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 14, 2006 - 08:39 AM UTC
Andrew leaves no stone unturned in his building. He is really an amazing modeller and researcher.
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