Greetings all,

I know there have been a few posts about working with water, which I'm afraid to say I didn't follow too closely.

I was looking in the features section but couldn't find any specific articles on working with large areas of water.

Is there an article or link I could follow. I need to start at the beginning, what's the best thing to seal the base with, how to build up a body of water etc, etc.

Any good or bad experiences would be helpful, issues about shrinkage, drying time, durability, products and so on.

Not sure if there is something running about this at the moment.

Cheers

Al

There are different approaches depending on the type of water.
A small area or puddle can be replicated with clear epoxy like Liquitex. A seagoing vessel is usually posed on a surface which is painted to replicate waves and wake. Waterfalls need specailized products as demonstrated here

Al

I remember a posting about clear casting resin from a while back.

I'll have a search and report back.

Andy

Water stuff 1

Water stuff 2


HTH

Andy

PS cant wait to see photo's of pier 51 - will you be doing a blow by blow build feature?

Here are a couple of features

Resin basics

in use

Hi Folks,

Al, Andy, Scott thanks for the links guys.

Scott, great article and very, very useful. Some questions about resin water. How does it effect the plastic kits? My water will surround the hulls of two plastic boats and as it's 'hot', will it damage them? It will also back against the harbour wall which will be made from cork and Foam Board and lap onto a small stone and sand beach.

What is the best thing to seal a large pour area with at the very beginning before anything else? Would varnish work or would there be a reaction with the base paint and then the resin?

When you have placed and painted the base and all the stuff that going into the water, should that then be sealed again before the pour begins?

I'll need a rising water level from zero to about three quarters of an inch minimun. I take it each pour should be no more than 2mm in depth? As I have a large area to cover can the pours be in sections once I have the first one down or would that leave join marks?

Will the resin accept other paints for colour and effect, in the different pour levels?

What's the average drying time between pours?

Sorry Scott about all the questions, I'll re-read you article again but I want to get the sequence and method of doing things clear in my mind. I probably have a thousand and one questions I need to ask.

Many thanks

Cheers all

Al

Hi,

I am not expert in making big water bodies, but I have made several vingettes and dios with small water bodies.

I use the relatively cheap resin (gloss and hardener)- the kind use to seal cross-stitch. I mix tamiya acrylic, khakis, or field grey etc (very small amts please, any excess will ruin your "water" and change it to toxic waste)

The drying time is within few hours.

Hope it helps,

Music werks

Here was a build I did with a ton of this resin stuff


The heat will soften the plastic just a bit, but not to the point of ruining it. I will say - Test it. I knew I wouldn't use a few of the pieces in the jeep kit so I did a quick test pour on the spare parts. In Gotcha'Covered diorama I poured the water up against untreated/sealed plaster (brick wall from VP), resin barrels (VP), and a thin layer of putty (bottom).

The way I create the edge is to use a sheet of styrene and tape it together with masking tape - seal it well! Then pour the water. Once the water is dry the styrene will 'pop' away from the water leaving a see through edge.

As far as a seam - the photo above shows a bit of one at each of the layers (4 can be seen). Its not a huge demark but there is a bit of one.
You mentioned two 'depths' of water or a decreasing depth. I would recommend trying to tip the whole diroama gradually and get the seams to act as ripples. You can polish the seams to make them less prominent.
I would try to pour a complete thin layer and then build up from there. I would not 'section' off a left or right or 'under the bridge' type of section and build left to right or front to back.
The seam issue is why I would do this. I would rather have a horizontal seam on the edge vs. a vertical seam running along and edge or demark somewhere. A view will focus negativly on the vertical seam more so than a horisontal seam on the edge. (I hope that makes sence- ask if not).

Colors - I have used Ritt dye to color the water and they make specially formulate dye's too. You can also air brush transparent colors between layers. Always color the resin and mix it completely before adding the hardener/catalyst.

Drying time depends on how thick it is. You can probably start working with it after 30-45 minutes. Total cure time=over night.

Greetings all,

Lester - thanks for taking the time to reply and for your ideas.

Scott - many thanks for the feed back, sorry I have a 1001 questions LOL, LOL.

Good idea about tipping the dio slightly, and good to know the styrene will pop away from the finished pour (had concerns about that), if I understand correctly this would mean I could do several pours over a period of days, gradually building up the water level or would it be better to do 2 larger pours?

I understand what you mean about the horizintal joins, if I work across the board they these should blend in with the flow of the tide.

Re the plastic kit boat hulls, I wondered if I should treat them with anything to stop any damage the 'heat' might do? Don't know if there is a product that might achieve this?

Current plan is to model the entire sea bed, sand, seaweed, rocks, mud and junk that might lie at the bottom. Then seal the whole thing with something???? (Varnish???) before I begin the pours. Given it's a large area that would seem to make sense to me.

Thanks for the feedback, there's a lot to consider before doing anything.

Cheers

Al

Yes - you can pour over a few days with no problems. That may be a safer bet if you are coloring as you go. You can adjust easier from thin layer to thin layer.

Glad you understood the vertical seam deal. Flow of the tide is exactally what I was thinking about. You can even add a bit of paint or two part epoxy glue on top of the final dry water to cover the seam with a very small 'white cap' ripple (if you want).

Sealing the boat hulls - don't know if that's possible? Not sure what would be used. Test test test here. The way I test is to make a small bowl out of kitchen foil and pour into that. Cheap easy, disposable.
I would add weight to the boats to make sure they don't float up during the pouring and drying process.

I think varnish would be fine to seal the entire bottom. I don't forsee any problem with that.

Alan, the answers you have had so far are great and exact on what you are after, As far as worrying about distortion from the heat, maybe you would try envirotex light instead. It does the same thing but with out heat. I have been tryin gto find some here locally for a long time now. Cheers Kevin

Greetings all,

Scott, thanks again for the answers to the questions, that's great; pouring over a few days would seem a much better idea and I can add semi submerged floating stuff as and when I like. Being able to hand paint in some changes to the water colour will also be very useful.

Kevin, I saw some stuff about envirotex light. Next job will be to source the products over here.

I have a similat post running on Shipwrights and there are a couple of links there that are worth a read.

Many thanks to all.

Cheers

Al

Hi,





Have you seen this article by Keith Magee - Passing Through '42 ? He uses Envirotex for the water with submerged things.

Making a search with 'Envirotex' also brings some topics about that and it's use for water.

HTH

Jose,

Thanks for that link, I'll see who supplies the different products over here in the UK.

Cheers

Al

Hi Kevin

Here's a link to a company that supplies Envirotex.

Is this whar you mean?

I see they do a product that you can use to seal the base before you pour? See the first spray can thingy.

Any comments, I can't see Envirotex (tm)?.

Hi Scott,

Re the Clear Castng Resin I can't quite mnake out who the manufacturer is on the photo of the can you showed in you article. Could you give me the full details from the can please and a product number if there is one.


http://www.alpineimport.com/items.asp?CartId={4C3EDF12-CFB1-4E56-8936-C798E8F07EVERESTD58}&Cc=10000295&CatMoveby=0&Nbm=&Pbm=&FromNav=

Al

Greeting all,

Another thought?

I've been thinking about the boats. They can't sit on the bottom so I'm thinking to run a length of milliput down the centre of the hulls and securing them that way. If I raise them off the sea bed in this manner it would also allow the unrestricted flow of the resin and hopefully help eliminate air bubbles that otherwise might get trapped. They wouldn't need to be far of the sea bed just enough to give clear passage to the 'Water'.

Make any sense?

Cheers

Al

Alan,
I'm not sure of how your dio will be laid out in consideration of the ships but my question would be "is it necessary for your resin pour to be 3/4" minimum?" That is an awful lot of resin unless there is something in your design that dictates that debth.
Below is a picture of my "Shallow Grave" diorama. It was done with Envirotex Lite, three pours of approximately 1/16" each. Debth is created by 1) painting the base with the muddy greens/browns and then 2)adding colour (Acrylic) to the first two pours.



Again, I'm not sure if what you are trying to do dictates 3/4"+ resin. If so, okay. But if it isn't absolutely necessary I would try to create the illusion of debth and minimize the amount of resin.

Cheers,
Charles

Hi Charles,

I'll be trying to pour as little as possible, I need about an inch and a quarter to take it up to the right level on the boats so by the time it reaches the harbour mouth it will probably be about two inches.

I'll use 'depth' via colour but it's meant to be low tide so the less I have to use the better.

Sorry that wasn't clear, I hadn't measured the hull depth at that point.

Cheers

Al

Alan,
Wouldn't it be easier to cut the bottom of the hulls away so it appears the ships/boats are sitting in 'deep' water? Unless there is a reason, again depending on what you are attempting to depict, minimizing the pour makes life much easier. Although it's hard to see in the above photo the T-34 was 'cut' at about a 50 degree angle so it sits lower to one side as if it had sunk in the marsh.
Razor knife's rule!
However you choose to proceed, I'm sure it will turn out fine.
Another tip: after the resin is all cured and the dio is pretty much done you'll find that the surface shows fingerprints unbelievebly easily. When all done, topcoat the cured resin with Future

Cheers,
Charles

Hi Charles,

Thanks for the tip about future, as to cutting the hulls understand what you are saying, but I think not.

Cheers

Al

Alan the stuff you linked to is it! Congrats you found it. Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for confirming that.

Cheers

Al