What do I need to make the Italeri Paladin kit into a IDF Doher? I know there's an Eduard Israeli M109 set, that has the frontal turret bins. Looking at the pics at Israeli weapons.com, the rear turret seems different.
Any ideas or tips on the subject?

Thanks in advance.

I dont know much yet about the IDF M109's but im pretty sure you need a completely new turret. The IDF Doher has a different shaped turret (im 99% sure of this) Hopefully a proper IDF expert can chime in. The Eduard set is a nice etch set but doesnt create and accurate IDF Doher, for that i think you will need this:
http://www.phpshopxml.com/azimut.shop/CID/4d767db9938682e4ac6174d8b44fcf47/function/itemPageDisplay/shopItemCode/BVM35033

Also have a read of this it will be most useful!-
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/self_propelled_artillery/m109/Rochev.html

drop a pm to magach8 on here, hes will be able to tell you what you need to do a conversion.

also look for either the azimut conversion in there "best value model range"

doheh conversion

which i think was available from great models (try the search bar at the top) or from http://www.azimutproductions.com/



or the Goffy model conversion

hull

turrret

available from http://www.modelimex.com

add to that the royal model conversion set (pe baskets)

the trakz turret interior , the trakz hull interior, the trakz barrel detail set and the AFV club tracks (all available from great models or model mecca

and you dont really have a lot of plastic left.

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

i hope that goes a little way towards helping ( i know i now have most of these sets

cheers

keith Forsyth

damn I didnt put active links, oh well Keith has provided the appropriate stuff.

Whats the Trakz interior sets like? Worth the money? They look very good and im tempted. Are you working on a Doher aswell Keith?

yep fancied doing one after all the pictures in the news, picked up the goffy sets and the trakz sets plus the afv tracks and the royal model set

the trakz sets look ok havent really ahd time to go through them, but seem to look ok, but i dont know how different the IDF interior is to the USA one

keith forsyth

The M109A6 Paladin will not easily convert to a Israeli M109 Doher. The Paladin has a completely new turret. The Doher is based on the older M109A4 howitzer. The best kit to start with would be an older Italeri M109A2 kit. It has the correct turret.

Im not sure but i dont think the m109a2 kit has the powered gun travel lock which is fitted to all dohers, that part of the kit comes with the paladin kit.

keith forsyth

Thanks all,

I was hoping that the easily obtainable Paladin and some plastic plate would do the trick. it seems a little more complicated than that.
Those Goffy model parts look amazing though. Has anyone bought them?

yep

i have both of the Goffy sets, very nicley molded i a white resin, although the hull has one glaring mistake that need to be removed, but shouldn't be to much of a problem.

I carnt work out if the turret is a copy of the azimut one or based very closley on it, but again is very nice

keith forsyth

The travel lock on the Doher is not the same one on the M109A6 Paladin either. Best bet is to still get one of the Doher conversion kits and an M109A2. A Paladin will not make a Doher.

I have seen them with and without the extended anmmo storage box. Either way, an M109A6 Paladin does not have the same turret as an M109 Doher.

Here's some help. History first.....

The Idf has used the full raqnge of these vehicles form the M109(73 war), M109A1(later), Intially the only change was IDf markings.

during the Operation Peace for Galilee they had the following additions....
1) 2 lg stowage baskets on turret sides b/w gun barrel and the doors w/ jerrycans mounted on the sides of the "panels"

2) Turret rear has a standard stowage basket and weach of these has 2 boxes each.

3) Part of the opening of the tuyrret side doors have been plated over- reducing the size, but the door remains the same size. I think this where people get confuesed about the turets- plus they add a different cupola.

4.) . 50 cal over main gun - this was phased oput in the mid ninties I think

5) Hull changes....
4 spare tracks Front RHS
2 long parallel bars on both hull sides
metal strips along forward hull for footing.
Rear lights on turret top

In 73 the IDF received 60 M109s, later 60 upgrade kits were aquired for these. The A1 models are called M109 AL. 294 M109A1Bs were sent with an additional 75 in late 80s. The IDF never got m109A2s but did work with the US Armys HIP ( Howizter Improvement Program) which resulted in the M109A5/A6. I beleive front-line M109s are now of this class.

The Best Value Models kit is acccurate for a Doher, but you do have to add some smaller details like the Muzzle velocity indicator and some other (minor) things.

The interior of Dohers is slightly different than the Traxx set- sorry.

HTH
Chris

The HIP upgraded the older howitzers to M109A4/A5 standards. As stated above, the M109A6 is not used by Israel and has a totally new turret as compared to the A4/A5 versions.

Gino, But of course you are correct - sorry 'bout that A6 error.

Chris

Can't find any pics of rear shots to post, but...



From the Israeli Weapons website Rochev page.

Hence, there are Doher's out there with rear ammo bins.

I wouldn't rely on the text or lame graphic on some website (do you believe everything you read?) , although Israeli Weapons is generally not too far off. I looked through all my gathered photos and print references on Israeli M109's (not that it's a huge collection), couldn't find a single one with the extra extension. Lots of models out there with it on, though
If someone does stumble across a photo, would be interesting to see.

Jim

I love this site! It gives me achance to exercize my gray-matter. Great thread guys!

Chris

Thanks all for the extensive answers.
The discussion is 1/2 the fun of this hobby!

i think this thread has proved that to create a M109 Doher its not as quite straight forward as it first appears

cheers

keith forsyth