Hi All,

I was wondering if the Heller H35/9 kit with the boxing showing a captured version in German service comes with the correct engine deck for an H35?

I was thinking of crosskitting it with a Trumpeter kit to get a somewhere decent H35. I have a bit more research to do to find the detail differences between the versions but the crucial part is the engine deck.

I recently cancelled my order for the Bronco H 39 because it turns out to be hopelessly incorrect. Seems like they used bad plans. Apparently the Trumpeter kit is reasonable shape wise and at least the Trump and Heller kits are cheap. With the addition of a Hobbyboss track set the Trumpeter Hotchkiss variants look the best bet for an accurate H38, even if the details aren't as nice as the Bronco.

Tim Tam

I don't know about the opinion that the Bronco kit is "hopelessly incorrect". I know S Zaloga came out with some good points about the kit's flaws. I like T Ashley's comparison review:

http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/bronco/cb35001.htm

Regardless, I know that Brach Model has a conversion for the H35 (but it's based on the Bronco donor kit).
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/brach/bm041.htm

I can't help you with the info about the Heller engine deck.

Hi,

I have built the Heller kit PzKpfw 35-H (item #81132) and yes it comes with all the parts to make a H39 or H35 including the short and long guns differt veiw ports and hull rear (engine grill).

I just checked, I have a trump H39 and the rear engine plate from the Heller H35.... looks like it will line up good asfar as hull width... at the top where the turret race is will need a little work though.....

As far as the Bronco kit is concerned...... I have seen quite a few pics and I feel the hull is not too thin..... but untill someone makes some accurate mesurements of an actual vehical, I cannot positily say it is or it is not correct. From the knowlege avalable to me it is in my opinion the most accurate H39 kit at the moment.

Gray

I have one of the Heller H35/39 German boxings and it contains all the same parts as the 1980s issue I also have. Have to admit that I haven't tried cross matching the hulls yet to see if they can be kit-bashed, but it doesn't look like it will be a problem - famous last words

Apart from the engine deck, you'll also need the Heller road wheels as the H35 had rubber tyred wheels compared to the all steel wheels of the H39. The Trumpeter turret fits the Heller turret ring nicely as long as you reduce the depth of the Heller turret ring by filing down the underside. I have tried that one and it does work. The turrets aren't quite identical, there are subtle differences in the contours, so the Trumpeter one is not a straight copy.

David

Well, I tried the Heller and Trumpeter hulls last night and the Heller upper hull is marginally wider than Trumpeter's. So using the two parts of the Heller upper hull will probably be easier than splicing the Heller H35 rear end onto the Trumpeter front end.

David

Hi Guys,

thanks for your prompt replies. Especially to the two of you who dragged out their kits and did a bit of test fitting. Good on you. On the strength of what you have told me I will get the Heller kit of the H35. I am sure I can cobble something together using bits from the two kits.

My rant about the Bronco H39 did stem from S Zaloga's comments but I also have been concerned that in the PMMS comparison review the Bronco turret was so much smaller than those of Trump and Heller. I have seen built up kits of their ( Trump and Heller) H38s and they look to me pretty close to photos of the real thing. To me the turrets don't look over-sized but then again the turret didn't look under-sized on the built up Bronco model either and I couldn't work it out. Zaloga's assertion that the model is narrow compared to factory and foundry drawings would account for the fact that the turret looks right on all three models. The factory drawings although apparently a bit crude would I imagine be pretty accurate when it comes to stated dimensions. It is easy to get a bit carried away with plans and the more nicely drawn the more authorative they look but there is no guarantee of their accuracy. I have been burnt in the past using bad plans and no longer take them as gospel. I am surprised that sometimes model companies just use plans and don't check out the real thing (If possible) before cutting the moulds. It will cost them a lot of money if they get it wrong.

Look I may be wrong about the shape and I agree that the Bronco kit is a lovely bit of work. I may end up getting one to use the detail parts but at this point I will go with the Trumpeter kit for the shape and if I am proved wrong in the future I will happily build the Bronco kit and chuck out the Trumpeter one.

Thanks again,
Tim Tam

I was wrong.

Last night I compared the Trumpeter H38 to photos of the real thing and was frankly appalled at how many things were wrong. I now have to admit that the Bronco kit captures the shape of the hull very nicely, 1000 times better than the Trumpeter kit which on close examination is incorrect in almost every way it could be. I also now think that the Bronco turret is the correct size and it seems to me that the Trump and Heller turrets are a bit off in shape as well.

If Steve Zaloga is right the Bronco kit may turn out to be a bit narrow but I bet it is not by much. I guess now I will have to re-order the Bronco H39 because it is clearly the best kit out there. I will also have to find a way to get a new turret for my Heller R35. If it wasn't both illegal and wrong I could do a resin cast of the Bronco turret.

So now instead of trying to cobble together an H35 out of two kits I will just go out and buy the Tamiya Char B1 instead. It will probably cost the same and at least (from all accounts) Tamiya got it pretty right.

Tim Tam.

Hi,

If you have to have a H35 (or R35) really the only game in town is the Heller kits...

I have built the Heller H35/39 into an H39 and with indy links with replacement drive sprockets. The kit built into a really good looking tank.



But I have to be honest..... at the time I would have really like to have built the Broco kit instead..... the Heller kit was a challenge.

(I have one Bronco H39 in the stash.... and really thinking about getting another)

Gray

If it's your own personal use I don't think this is illegal, anyway I take it with a grain of salt as a large number of resin conversions and kits out there have castings based on modified plastic kit parts.

Cheers,
Christophe

Hi,

thanks Herr Gray for the pic of your model. The H39 is a great looking little tank and your photo gives me inspiration to get on with my own H39. That is a very funky paint scheme, the French certainly had some interesting camouflage.

Thanks also Christophe for the info on casting resin copies. It would only be for me so it should be OK then.

However I did more research last night and have not given up on the Trumpeter kit. When I work out exactly what needs to be done ( an awful lot) I will post pics and an explanation. Although at this point it is looking like the old Heller kit might have the best shape of them all.

Cheers,
Tim Tam

One other thing I spotted when comparing the Heller and Trumpeter hulls, was that Trumpeter have the rear bogie further back than Heller. Something else to check

David

Recasting a kit part for personal use is neither illegal, immoral nor fattening. If you have the skill, go right ahead.

Selling them or passing them off as original _is_ bad, but personal use is perfectly fine.

Paul

Hi,

Thanks glad you like the H39.

I have a few reccomendations on the Heller/Trupeter kits....

For a H35 I would use the Trump H38 as a base, the heller bogies are not as good as the Trump bogies and need alot of work to look decent, I spent alot of time on these..... the springs look terrible. So use the Heller wheels with the Trump bogies as the H35 had rubber tires and the heller wheels are thicker than the Trumpeter wheels.

The hull..... fit of the Heller hull parts was off and needed filling. I would try sawing the rear of the Trupeter kit off and using the Heller rear deck. Keep in mind the real tank was bolted togeather and there should be a seam between the the front hull and rear. If you goof and the Trupeter hull wont work (or trying to saw it off in a straight line is too much stess then use the Heller front hull half as well....)

Use the Heller exhauste..... and Trumpeter tools, you can use the Trumpeter ditch skid aswell... and the Heller kit comes with the chain that was very commonly seen on these tanks...

Tracks have to go..... the Trumpeter band type tracks are ok, but best thing to do is find aftermaket tracks. Also the Heller drive sprokets are really off...
don't use them, the Trumpeter drive sprokets are better but still not 100% look for replacement tracks that include new drivesprokets.... this will greatly improve the looks of the finished kit.


Gray

Hi Guys,

Thanks for pointing out the things that need extra attention on the different H35/.38/39's. Always good to have an experienced view on the pitfalls of a particular kit.

I have been having a very close look at the Trumpeter H39 and think now that with a lot of cutting, filling and re-shaping I might be able to get a pretty accurate model out of it. I will draw some diagrams to illustrate what I am doing and post them so I can get some feed back from you. It seems the secret is the width of the lower hull. Fixing that starts to take care of many (but not all) of the problems.

It might be worth starting a different thread.

Cheers,
TimTam