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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Problems with my Aztek Aibrush, please help
dronek75
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New York, United States
Joined: February 22, 2006
KitMaker: 64 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 06:12 AM UTC
Ok here it is....i was going to make a camo on my 1/35 stug III from Tamiya and again...no matter how i thin mmy model master enamels, how low ot high i set pressure on the compressor with moisture trap attached to it and one more moisture trap on the air hose, effect is terrible. I'm almost postive that purchasing this Aztek 47 series double action airbrush for ~ $70 was a big mystake. Splattering all the time and even with the smallest tip on the airbrush there is no way for me to make a nice line(they are waaaay to thick) ....I really like this hobby but I'm just devastated by the results, now I'll have to repaint the stug all over again with the base colour but what then? I guess there is no escape for me from bying a deceant airbrush since what i have is useless. I need an advice on what airbrush to buy (maybe on ebay?) I saw the other day post made by somebody from the UK who purchased great airbrush on ebay (shipped from HK ) but can't find it anymore. So what should I buy? I guess my budged is limited to about $200 anything else i need? I have a new compressor from Paashe with moisture trap and air pressure valve.
You guys take a look at the pics i, I almost feel ashamed posting them on here but without no help I'm screwed. I do practice and like i said i have a feeling that buing this airbrush was a big mystake and i should have invest more to get a nice metal airbrush instead if this plastic junk.
Thanks.
Regards








armorjunior
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California, United States
Joined: August 03, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 07:13 AM UTC
never seen that before..........
i think you sould clean the tips
trabbott
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South Dakota, United States
Joined: December 05, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 08:01 AM UTC
I completely understand your frustration....I too have an Aztek, model 4709 (I think), and as you'll notice from my posts below, mine broke and I've since purchased an Iwata.

Now, I am pretty new to this, but I too had problems I sought answers on specifically related to the same issue, my camo on German armor was in my opinion, too thick. What I was told was to turn the pressure down, and hold the airbrush extremely close to the model. When I did this, I was able to get a finer line (still not what I for sure wanted, but much better) and since the pressure was so low, I didn't have any of the spidering with the paint. Also, I was using Tamiya acrylics....I've never airburshed enamels, so perhaps my suggestion won't work. As in your picture, for any fine lines I used the tan nozzle, and always broke it down into its three pieces and thoroughly cleaned it.

If you are thinking about a new airbrush, if you're looking at an Iwata, everyone recommends Dixieart.com. I purchased the Eclipse from my local Hobby Lobby and with using the 40% off one item coupon printed from the internet (twice), I was able to purchase the Eclipse and hose for $90 ($78 for the airbrush and $12 for the hose). This was about $40 cheaper than Dixieart. Also, if you're interested in Badger, I believe that is the brand Michael's craft stores carry and if you get their 40% off newspaper coupon, you could probably get something cheaper than the Iwata, I think my store had the Anthem and Crescendo.

Again, info from a newbie, so take it for what it is worth...

Randy
jlmurc
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 02:37 PM UTC
I have sent you a pm.

John
Delbert
#073
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Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 05:54 PM UTC
If you solve your splattering problem.. you can get thinner looking lines with the airbrush by cutting your camo pattern in a index card and hold it just away from the model and spray through it.. although this takes longer and more planning..

personally if you can afford it go for a badger or another airbrush... I went through 4 different azteks before I got my badgers and the difference for me was like night and day.... by the way that Antheim 155 is a pretty good brush for modeling.. the Cresendo is also a good airbrush but is a little more heavy duty and of my two airbrushs I find the 155 is better suited for most of my work... (although I'm not the greatest airbrush user yet..

chefchris
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 06, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 06:35 PM UTC
I have been using my Aztek for over a year now with no problems. You just have to keep those *&^% nozzles clean and free of dried paint (splatter). IN the beginning I had the same problems and some more (the airbrush stopped working altogether). I purchase the entire line of nozzles to experiment with them. I am down to really only three -- the tan, grey, and black. I also use Vallejo and Lifecolor paints with the occassional Acryl.

The iwatas are hard to beat for atomization and fine applications.

The suggestion about the index card is also worth trying as it might tighen up your lines.

Just keep in mind that many pictures show roughly sprayed camo on Panzers - with overspray, splatter and other issues.

Chris
viper29_ca
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New Brunswick, Canada
Joined: October 18, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 08:05 PM UTC
Hey there Gregory,

Not to reiterate what has already been said, but yes, you have to keep the tips super clean, but also, instead of turning your air pressure up, you want to turn it down.

Although I only have one moisture trap on mine, I can consistantly get pencil thin lines with my Aztek. Mind you I generally don't use MM paint, and use Tamiya instead, but any paint will work.

With Tamiya paint, I go about 70/30 thinner to paint, and reduce my compressor output to about 8-10lbs. Put in the finest tip, which is the tan one. At this point you have to get up really close to your subject, like no more than an inch away, and most of the time less than that. Your Aztek should be able to paint nice thin lines no problems this way!!!
badger66
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Texas, United States
Joined: April 09, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 09:51 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have been using my Aztek for over a year now with no problems. You just have to keep those *&^% nozzles clean and free of dried paint (splatter). IN the beginning I had the same problems and some more (the airbrush stopped working altogether). I purchase the entire line of nozzles to experiment with them. I am down to really only three -- the tan, grey, and black. I also use Vallejo and Lifecolor paints with the occassional Acryl.

The iwatas are hard to beat for atomization and fine applications.

The suggestion about the index card is also worth trying as it might tighen up your lines.

Just keep in mind that many pictures show roughly sprayed camo on Panzers - with overspray, splatter and other issues.

Chris



Those are the same three nozzles that I wound up using also
chefchris
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 06, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 01:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I have been using my Aztek for over a year now with no problems. You just have to keep those *&^% nozzles clean and free of dried paint (splatter). IN the beginning I had the same problems and some more (the airbrush stopped working altogether). I purchase the entire line of nozzles to experiment with them. I am down to really only three -- the tan, grey, and black. I also use Vallejo and Lifecolor paints with the occassional Acryl.

The iwatas are hard to beat for atomization and fine applications.

The suggestion about the index card is also worth trying as it might tighen up your lines.

Just keep in mind that many pictures show roughly sprayed camo on Panzers - with overspray, splatter and other issues.

Chris



Those are the same three nozzles that I wound up using also




Great minds MUST think alike! Seriously, the other tips that don't have the metal needles are suspect to fouling and with varying the pressure you should get the results that you need.

Chris
Pilgrim
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England - North, United Kingdom
Joined: November 20, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 01:27 AM UTC
This page contains great information about maintaining an Aztec 470 (scroll down)


Sean
dronek75
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New York, United States
Joined: February 22, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 05:49 AM UTC
when comes to splatter i don't think it was the tip if an airbrush bacause i just used a brand new tip and had the same problem...I guess i'll keep Aztek only for major work and will have to get something better for detailed work. So I think Iwata (from You guys are telling me) would be a good option. Now I know there is plenty of different Iwatas so which would be the most suitable for camo work ect. ? eventually i could look for particular model on ebay or trixie.com. Also do i need special hose adapter to connect it to compressor ( I have Paasche model D200 ) Anybody familiar with this compressor and how Iwata can be connected to it?
Thanks
Greg
P.S.
I just repainted whole model with base colour and will just wait untill i get a new airbrush and try again with the camo. Hmmm, maybe i should not have been using Model Master Enamels but something else(?)
3442
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 07:08 AM UTC
WAIT!!!!
DONT BUY ANYTHING YET!
now that i have your attention.... I'd suggest buying a sparmax airbrush dh-2 from luckymodel.com.
I was skeptical but they are AWSOME! fine clean lines and the braided hose( buy that apart) is very nice The paint cup is little and the ab holds wel. and for under 50$, its amazing, i wouldnt say anymore!

I paint with tamiya acrylics and love the easyness to clean, precision of hte tool, plus it looks like an iwata!

so dont get it wrong, give it a chance, its definatly worth it! just look at my elefant camo in my gallerie to see what this was able to do on my first use!
this is what i swear by now... and i plan on buying another one(dh-3) for hte bigger cup for basecoats... althought the dh-2 can do that perfectly.
for more info, pm me
Frank
btw, i have a badger 150 and had an aztek... i nearly threw the last out lol.... i find them horrible.
dronek75
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New York, United States
Joined: February 22, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 06:11 AM UTC
hmmm, thanks I'll look into it. Yeah i think for me Aztek I'll keep only to make base painting as for the camo i need something better, thanks so much
Greg
dronek75
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New York, United States
Joined: February 22, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 06:34 AM UTC
Here is a picture of my last model that was hand painted and simply i i don't like the effect done by hand painting that's why i need GOOD airbrush because i think it's time for me to move to another level.



old-dragon
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Illinois, United States
Joined: August 30, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 07:19 AM UTC
Greg, you could still take that hand painted model and give it a good wash or two of sand/base color to tone down the other colors and lessen the contrast. I did the same thing on my E100 as you but washed her down in the end with the base color and it really toned down the other colors well...I also faded the edges...made the hard edge of the other colors fade into the base color by feathering the edges with base color.
As for the azteks, you have to keep the tips pretty clean, and I really just use the tan, light blue and black tips with the metal needles..I dial my pressure down, way down to about 7-8psi and lay decent 1/8" lines...just painted my 1/48 jagpanther tonight. I usually use model master acrylics but have just started using tamiyas for the consistant consistancies...sounds odd but I have 5 jars of MM sand and all are thick as heck compared to the rest of my MM paints. I mix about 60/40{paint/water} and get nice results.
Do you have a reg on your compressor? Try a greater thinner to paint ratio and less air pressure...it can be done on an aztek...really.
Oh, fwiw...I run an aztek 470, 320 and an old badger crescendo 175t with a testors/aztek 500 compressor with reg and water tap.
old-dragon
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Posted: Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 07:21 AM UTC
Oh, and nice figures there too...you do better than I do! I really can't do figures for...
dronek75
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New York, United States
Joined: February 22, 2006
KitMaker: 64 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 01:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Oh, and nice figures there too...you do better than I do! I really can't do figures for...




Thanks, I still haven't purchased any airbrush yet...I have a Paasche D200 compressor with moisture trap and pressure regulator along with another mositure trap attached to the air hose so I'm possitive that splatter i'm gettin isn't caused by problems with those. must be something else. "problem" is that almost all of the colors i have ( around 50 different ones) are MM enamels, hmmm maybe i should get some Tamiya acrylics and try with those but there isn't much to choose from at my local hobby store. Honestly i have no idea of how to do washes and what would i need in order to make it. From what i understand usually You do washes after putting a decals on and few coats of dull coat (?)
I have done anything I could to get nice fine lines ( camo), tryied different pressure, even repalaced my TAN nozzle to a brand new one and still they were coming out crappy...maybe i haven't mix the enamels good enough?
I'm cluesless of where the problem could be.
dronek75
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New York, United States
Joined: February 22, 2006
KitMaker: 64 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 07:05 AM UTC
OK I have just purchased an Iwata HP-CH on ebay. I would like to thank all of you for helping me out deciding on what to get, maybe my thinking isn't right for some of You but i decided to invest an extra few bucks and get best i can get for the money i was willing to spend. I can't wait for it so i can start practicing with it and i guess I'll switch to acrylics.
houborg
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Sonderjylland, Denmark
Joined: January 31, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 02:03 PM UTC
Hi Greg,

Congrats with the new airbrush. I think you should seriously consider acrylic colors. They thin with water and are easy to clean - if you do it right away after use.
I am a little puzzled about your comment regarding not knowing anything about washes and at the same time having an airbrush. A wash is thinned paint (more thinned than when thinning for an airbrush) but preparing the paint is the same basic step. To what ratio do you thin your airbrush paint and at what preassure do you shot it??. When you laid down the yellow base coat, did it already there flood the details of your kit, or did that basepaint look good?
I have the same Aztec as you have - only paint with acrylics though - and it was difficult to learn to use it - I spend a lot of time looking at the training video which MM has on it's home page (don't know if its still there).
I was in the beginning often at the point of utter frustration but learned to use it - so I understand your feelings, but isnīt it a bit drastic to buy a new one before learning to master the old one - I think it's a bit like buying the Mig FAQ book and expect to paint like him after reading the book - only practise will get you there. Your new AB will also frustrate you at some point in time, but only practise will help you overcome this. I am not trying to rant you - I am merely saying that AB with a double action gun is difficult in the beginning. Maybe your expectations are to high but practise will put you to the next level - it just takes longer than expected.
Best regards from Denmark
Morten
old-dragon
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Posted: Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 09:27 PM UTC
Greg, let us know how that new AB works out, and as for doing washes it's easy. thin the snot out of the color you want to do...say a dark wash for highlighting panel lines and/or deep detail. Take your black and thin it to somewhere between a 80/20{thinner/paint} and spray narrow patterns where you want to wash...use low pressure too. Coat the model and when dry go back and hit any areas that need more wash. Now mix up some dirt color and add a dirt wash the same way...don't hammer it all on at once..keep adding alittle at a time till it looks like how you want it. I'm no master modeler, but it works for me...grab an old model and try your hand at it. Later, when your comfortable with the process, you can use the same technique to high light{lighten} bands of color in a camo pattern or to feather edges of a color for a sprayed look...keep practicing!
As for the MM acrylics verses Tamiyas...I'm far more used to MM's but I found better consistancy with the Tamiyas lately...but don't write me totally off MM just yet...they do have a larger color variety and I'm still a "color as it comes from the jar" kinda guy...not too much of a custom mixer yet.
dronek75
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New York, United States
Joined: February 22, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 10:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Greg,

Congrats with the new airbrush. I think you should seriously consider acrylic colors. They thin with water and are easy to clean - if you do it right away after use.
I am a little puzzled about your comment regarding not knowing anything about washes and at the same time having an airbrush. A wash is thinned paint (more thinned than when thinning for an airbrush) but preparing the paint is the same basic step. To what ratio do you thin your airbrush paint and at what preassure do you shot it??. When you laid down the yellow base coat, did it already there flood the details of your kit, or did that basepaint look good?
I have the same Aztec as you have - only paint with acrylics though - and it was difficult to learn to use it - I spend a lot of time looking at the training video which MM has on it's home page (don't know if its still there).
I was in the beginning often at the point of utter frustration but learned to use it - so I understand your feelings, but isnīt it a bit drastic to buy a new one before learning to master the old one - I think it's a bit like buying the Mig FAQ book and expect to paint like him after reading the book - only practise will get you there. Your new AB will also frustrate you at some point in time, but only practise will help you overcome this. I am not trying to rant you - I am merely saying that AB with a double action gun is difficult in the beginning. Maybe your expectations are to high but practise will put you to the next level - it just takes longer than expected.
Best regards from Denmark
Morten



Yeah I was never able to finish any of my models using an airbrush i feel comfortable with regular brush so decided to go further and I really do feel i should have invest more in Iwata in the first place, to me using enamels with that Aztek airbush is impossible it's very good at putting a base coat but to do a fine line i just couldn't achive that...hmmm maybe that was desperation but i know with that airbush there is no way for me to work, i gave up for couple of months bacuse of problems with airbrush, just got back to modelling and i have the same results as before using aztek.....i thin it, use differentl pressure settings, spray at various distance from model and it 's still crappy, i even invested in brand new tan tip, and got same results as with the previous one. So i don't know, some people say they run through same problems untill they have gotten another airbrush and the difference to them was like night and day. Like i said, with what i have I can't work anymore, and i guess if i run into the same problems using Iwata i'll just have to have somebody to teach me of how to use it and at least will have a a pretty deceant airbrush. As it come to of not knowing how to do washes , yes i never did that and would like to try it. All my models are simply too clean like they were made for a tank show LOL.
Here is some of my work, I hope that my work isn't that bad/terrible as i'm still new to this hobby and I hope with help of this forum I'll get deceant results...cheers


P.S.
T55 was my very first model done last spring




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