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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
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Suggestions on Challenger 2 Stowage
jazza
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Singapore / 新加坡
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 03:48 AM UTC
Hey folks,

Im hoping to add alot of stowage equipment onto my Tamiya Challenger 2 kit and was wondering if there was any readily available ones that i can just get off the shops? Any recommendations?

For the equipment (duffel bags etc), would it be suitable to use the Modern US equipment set by Tamiya?


I've already purchased the PE set by Tamiya for the chally 2 but are there any other AM parts that would be nice to have on this kit?

I was thinking of getting the blast model bristish tank figures but the ones included in the kit looked pretty decent so i gave it a miss.

Erik67
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Buskerud, Norway
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 03:52 AM UTC
I think I would go for something British.

Erik
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 03:54 AM UTC
From all the Chally 2 pics I have seen, they don't have much external storage, other than the large camo net that wraps around the front hull. There are designated storage bins on the turret for crew gear and other stowed items.
jazza
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Singapore / 新加坡
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 04:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

From all the Chally 2 pics I have seen, they don't have much external storage, other than the large camo net that wraps around the front hull. There are designated storage bins on the turret for crew gear and other stowed items.



Yeah i noticed that too. Most kits ive seen required the modeller to scratch that one up using epoxy sculp or similar. The problem i have with that is mainly due to the fact that im not an accomplish scratch builder and am pretty sure it would end up wrecking the whole look of the kit.

Any clues if there are ready made ones out in the market? I noticed that you had some nice gears on your warrior that you created some time back. Whereabouts did you get those from again?


Quoted Text

I think I would go for something British.

Erik



Thats fantastic. Cheers for that Erik!
nzgunnie
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Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: October 15, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 07:37 AM UTC
The bed rolls would be ok, but not the packs, actually most of those packs wouldn't be much use for US forces either!


On a related note, the packs would be ok for NZ vehicles as our guys use a locally manufactured varient of the ALICE pack in DPM.

If your after an interesting Kiwi subject, check out the link on the ome page to the Mig productions products and check out the Hilux - this would make a really interesting conversion to a NZ vehicle in Afghanistan.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 07:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Any clues if there are ready made ones out in the market? I noticed that you had some nice gears on your warrior that you created some time back. Whereabouts did you get those from again?



Sorry, I don't know of any AM suppliers for the camo roll. For the Warrior ICV gear, I used some duffle bags and soem odd, non-US looking, bags and packs.
Erik67
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Buskerud, Norway
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 01:00 PM UTC
I think the camo net roll should be fairly easy to do by using Milliput (or something similar) and Kleenex tissue. Form a Milliput "sausage" about the seize of the camo roll and cover it with Kleenex tissue dampened in dilutet white glue. You could use thin strips of masking tape for straps. I did something similar to make the canvas mantlet cover for my M-48A5 a while back, and it was easy and quick to do. I can't guarantee it will work for your Chally, but this is what I plan to do when I (in time ) break out my own Challenger.

Erik
jlmurc
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: August 29, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 02:08 PM UTC
Jazza,

I dont know how much has changed in the years since I last served in the Royal Armoured Corps as a 17/21st Lancer, but I am assuming from speaking with friends that it is still fairly reinforced.

Despite other nations festooning their vehicles with all manner of personal kit, in the British Army this is not standard practice as it was always an operational requirement that crew kit was stored internally in the bins that are provided on the vehicle. Small amounts of kit can be stowed internally and comprised of what was required as a 'bail out' bag, which consisted mainly of personal webbing with ammo, survival kit and water as well as the personal weapon which in my day was the Stirling SMG. In the bins would be other individual kit, including some spare clothing, washing and mess kit etc. Much of the time this was packed into a standard civilian sportsbag. Much of the time the remainder of the personal possessions were stored in the issue kit bag and kept in the regimental logistics unit. Other equipment that might be carried such as Camping Gas grills and cookers was also stowed with the on vehicle equipment.

If you think that much of our operational procedure was designed towards our role within NATO in defending against the Warsaw Pact in Western Europe, with the need to fight in forested and built up areas, then any kit that was stowed externallay would have been at risk of being ripped off the vehicle. Also it meant that there was less chance of things being lost to shell or nuclear at the worst. There would also have been less danger of contamination in event of the use of chemical weapons.

This appeared in my time that APC's were stowed in a similar way.

Hope this helps,

John
jlmurc
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 02:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The bed rolls would be ok, but not the packs, actually most of those packs wouldn't be much use for US forces either!


On a related note, the packs would be ok for NZ vehicles as our guys use a locally manufactured varient of the ALICE pack in DPM.

If your after an interesting Kiwi subject, check out the link on the ome page to the Mig productions products and check out the Hilux - this would make a really interesting conversion to a NZ vehicle in Afghanistan.



Jazza,

If you paint the Accurate Armour bergans in DPM, they will be fine, I have a set of the Olive Green set that I got when they changed to DPM and they look exactly the same as the ones my son had in the newer material.

John
jazza
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Singapore / 新加坡
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Posted: Friday, September 29, 2006 - 04:51 AM UTC
Ah thanks for that John. I am currently reading the Osprey New Vanguard series on the challenger 2 and do notice that almost all the pictures of the tank had hardly any external equipment. A great contrast from the MCV and IFV warriors in Op. Telic, which seemed to have most of their equipement externally.


Quoted Text

Form a Milliput "sausage" about the seize of the camo roll and cover it with Kleenex tissue dampened in dilutet white glue. You could use thin strips of masking tape for straps. I did something similar to make the canvas mantlet cover for my M-48A5 a while back, and it was easy and quick to do. I can't guarantee it will work for your Chally, but this is what I plan to do when I (in time ) break out my own Challenger.



Silly question but did you dip the kleenex wrapped milliput entirely into the diluted white glue solution? Im going to have to hunt around for the NZ equivalent of the milliput though and will probably give it a try.
nzgunnie
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Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Friday, September 29, 2006 - 05:21 AM UTC
Milliput is available here, Modelcrafts and hobbies stock it, get the fine white if you can. I see they have yellow/grey listed, this isn't quite as fine as the white, but is still pretty good and will be fine for tarps.

A trick I've picked up reading a couple of reviews of the Chally is to put glad wrap over the front of the model, then sculpt the tarp. Then you can remove the whole lot (apparently...) the glad wrap allows you to lift the whole thing off after it's set. I think I'd be removing it when it was almost set, just in case!

I plan on trying this with mine.
jazza
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Singapore / 新加坡
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Posted: Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 05:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A trick I've picked up reading a couple of reviews of the Chally is to put glad wrap over the front of the model, then sculpt the tarp. Then you can remove the whole lot (apparently...) the glad wrap allows you to lift the whole thing off after it's set. I think I'd be removing it when it was almost set, just in case!



Cheers for that Phil. Which tool would you use to create the look of creases though? Im thinking a needle from a more budget constraint perspective.
Erik67
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Buskerud, Norway
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Posted: Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 06:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Silly question but did you dip the kleenex wrapped milliput entirely into the diluted white glue solution?



Let the Milliput dry, wrap it in tissue and use a brush for the white glue.
Razor635
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Alabama, United States
Joined: September 11, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 08:19 AM UTC
The same goes for US vehicle stowage too. The only time you see tons of external stowage is in ODS or OIF vehicles. You wont see a gypsy wagon operating in Hohenfels or Graf. And if you did the crew was being lazy about putting thier gear away, Storage on our vehicles was always in the sponson boxes and bustle racks.
maximus8425
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England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: May 12, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 01:31 AM UTC
Challenger 2's have enough bins on their turrets to enable each crewman to have his own bin. Heavy use items such as helmets and webbing are usually secured close to hand for each crewman ie. commanders behind his hatch, loaders secured around one of the antenna bases, gunners around the other if possible and drivers on the sponson plate above the ERA. As for Warriors, Scimitars and the like they look like Jed Clampets caravan because they just can't hold all the kit internally as well as the crew/infanteers. Small arms ammunition is never usually stored on the vehicle roof.
jazza
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Singapore / 新加坡
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Posted: Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 01:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Challenger 2's have enough bins on their turrets to enable each crewman to have his own bin.



kinda glad i started this thread now. Pretty much saves me from buying equipment that end up making my kit less accurate.

During Op. Telic, was it common to see challenger 2 carrying camo nets on the field?
Erik67
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Posted: Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 02:07 AM UTC

It is not unusual . You can search the British Arny Defence image database and you will see that most Challengers who turns up have a cam net attached. I did a quick search and found this pic which I thought was pretty good

jazza
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Singapore / 新加坡
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Posted: Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 03:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I did a quick search and found this pic which I thought was pretty good



Cheers for that Erik. Yeah i saw that photo when i did my search as well. Just cant seem to find alot more photos of the desertised version of the chally 2. Most i see are in the camo scheme.

Any clues what are those on the front below the camo net? Looks like jerry cans but cant confirm it.
LeoCmdr
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 04:48 AM UTC
Jeremy,

I don't know where you are looking but there are tons of OP Telic photos of the uparmoured Challenger 2s painted tan both on the internet and in print.

Under the camnet in the image posted it is most likely crew kit such as webbing or other gear wrapped in NBCW proof black rubberized material.

For print photos of the Challenger 2s in the Gulf try the Concord Publication books.

For internet, try this link for starters, click on the high resolution versions of the photos and you can see al the details. Make sure to check archive 1 and 2 photos also.

You will notice the Challenger 2s in the photos aren't carrying regular desert cam nets. They are carrying the rolled up Quick Cam system...it should be fairly easy to reproduce using rolled putty or tissue soaked in white glue.

http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/photo_gallery_ops_land.htm
nzgunnie
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Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 10:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

A trick I've picked up reading a couple of reviews of the Chally is to put glad wrap over the front of the model, then sculpt the tarp. Then you can remove the whole lot (apparently...) the glad wrap allows you to lift the whole thing off after it's set. I think I'd be removing it when it was almost set, just in case!



Cheers for that Phil. Which tool would you use to create the look of creases though? Im thinking a needle from a more budget constraint perspective.



My favourite tool is a tooth pick. you can easily trim them to the size you want.

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