First two photos show the buff color



Third and fourth photo show a more darker sand color,,the base color here I think is completely different than the two first photos.



Now the last photo show another version of sand color


NOw because I got confused with so many colors I srewed up some of my models by using on them three different basecolors too. ( uparmored humvee doors are with tamya sand spray can,,,the m1a2 buff and a lot of pigments,,,command humvee base color was us army marines MM but i used a lot of pigments too to lighten it up because it was too dark

The models in the pics are not yet finished,only the painting done.






Does anyone have the original Carc paint at home and send me sone drops so I can compare? I really wish I could place the model next to a real US sand colored vehicle to see which color is best

The exact match for CARC Sand is Testors Model Master Sand, FS# 33531. The above pics all look to be painted the same color to me. The color differances you see are from weathering, light level, contrast to the photos, etc. The above will cause the color to look different in different conditions. Pics are not a definitive color referance due to the above variables.

Your models look good and capture the varied hues of sand color you can see quite well. I would leave them as is.

If you say so, I believe you thank you

different views of my models are in my gallery.

I tend to satrt a model then stop with it for a half year then strart another one..so that s why none of those are done,,

Wehn they are done with the accessories I will post them as well

Thanks.

I have two going to paint soon for modern sand. I have the MM army/marine gulf armor sand color, I think thats the right one

Army/Marine Gulf War Sand is based on a non-FS # color that was used in Saudi Arabia during ODS ('90-'91). It was a comercially bought paint in Saudi that was used to get vehicles painted sand quickly. It is darker than FS# 33531 CARC Sand. Also, it was only used in ODS.

Well its for the M1A1 'all bout da bones' which I believe is a little earlier then the latest tanks, and an earlier LAV. I could always base coat it with that and highlight with the lighter FS color I guess. I kinda like the color.

You can paint them how you want, but "All Bout Da Bones" is an M1A1HC from 1-64 AR, 3ID during OIF 1 (invasion phase). It was drawn from the Pre-Positioned fleet in Kuwait. It was painted in CARC Sand. Tanks are regulary repainted to keep them in good working order and from rusting. It would not still be in the old ODS paint, even if it was there 12 years earlier, which is unlikely.

I was thinking I could also use it to pre-shade the model, as I don't intend to build it as a M1 that looks as if it has seen 25 years of service.

Gino,

Trusting in your opinion:

For the first Gulf War, were I to do a vehicle, then the Model Master Army/Marine Gulf War Sand would be the correct color? And for the current ops the Model Master Sand is right? I'm not much into the current War, but really want to do something for the first one. Much like having someone scratch my TacFire shelter (ain't forgot ya sir!) and I do by "built-up" with 15Kw's.

Mike

Mike, You have the colors right. You coud also use the CARC Sand for ODS, if it was a vehicle that was from a stateside unit and was painted in the states before going to Saudi. Let me know when you are ready for the shelter.

Hmmm.....Our vehicles were shipped from Georgia. They'd been painted prior to my arrival when I got there in '89. Several trips to NTC (well, three in my 10 months prior to deployment), then the Sand Box, then back. They were not repainted, at least any time before I left for Germany again.

Your recommendations? Based on a minimum of three trips to NTC then ODS....a fair amount of "elements" cookin' them? The "proper" ODS paint, MM Army/Marine Gulf War Sand?

re the shelter: Will do!!!

Mike

I would go with the CARC Sand. I personally don't like the look of the Army/Marine Gulf War Sand color. It looks too brown to me.

To reinforce what Gino said about the original picutres, I included some of my own. They are the exact same model, one taken in the basement, one taken outside in natural sunlight. Exposure, cloudy vs sunny day, dust content of the atmosphere, amount of dirt on the track, contrast, background, shadows, color of light, ect all can play into how a color is replicated in picture form. CARC is a pretty uniform consistancy.

Also, Gino, isn't CARC a form of epoxy paint? In that it bonds with the metal underneath and forms a hard shell rather than a coating, similar to powder coat finish?

I agree entirely with Gino. As far as the Marine Corps goes, one thing I can distinctly remember is going to the local hardware store and color matching CARC paint because the supply was so low before the war broke out! Also, As far as I saw with the vehicles of 1st Mar Div it was quite common to see woodland camo vehicles marked with the tactical markings in the sand color. This was especially true for the Hummers. Just my experience, but it would make for an interesting model huh?

Pretty much. It bonds to the metal and also provides a coating that is a Chemical Agent Resistent Coating (CARC). It is quite toxic when being applied.

Nice model, Ryan!!!!

Congratulations for the realistic effect!!

Bye,

Marcelo

Oliver, I too think your coloring, from the pics, looks good. I especially like your HMMWV (7th pic down). Very nice. Much like the one we used during the Gulf War as our "on the move" Battalion FDC.

Ryan, VERY nice contrast with regards to lighting! Huge differences can be made depending on lighting. Much like Oliver's pics....put 'em all together in the same lighting, the differences would probably not be too far off.

Oh, you really don't want to mess with "wet" CARC paint...that stuff, if used unprotected, could cause some seriour health problems! Least that's what we were told when the crap first came out.

Mike

Oliver, I can't quite tell from the picture above, but is your hard-top Humvee outfitted with Eduard's ASK add-on armor photoetch set? If it is, what do you think of it? Did it go together easily and fit the Tamiya kit well? I bought the set but have yet to use it. It's about the only ASK package conversion I could find, and I'm hoping it was worth the money.

HI there,,well yes the tamya armored Humvee was assembled with the Photo etched armored doors from Edouard.

Well, I do have a lot of patience with scale modeling,,,but the set was a mess!!!!
I am glad i did it but if you would take a close look you will see it i did not well assemble the doors...I really didn t like it,..I had two sets,,I sold the second set to a friend .

The fact is this type of armored doors is more used I think in Iraq than the uparmored doors relased by blast-models. There are so many types of up armored doors . Unfortunalty the Edouard set is a frustrating tough thing to assemble !!!

The only good thing about the doors is that they fit well to the tamya kit.

Let me know when you assembled yours. I will purchase once the other type of upramored doors of BLast models even if they are not so widely used by the US Armed Froces than the up armored doors of Edouard

check my photo gallery there you can get a closer look at the humvee


GOOD LUCK

I started using the MM marines/army ODS sand and it looks like a great color to pre-shade the model. I'm doing both the AFV's in very good condition, so it should be very subtle when overcoated with the lighter modern sand. I was going to do a dark brown but its going to be way too extreme and should just 'mottle' the top coats to give it a little depth. The AIM and the LAV with Eduard etch have plenty to provide lots of shaddow as it is and a super-thinned light wash should do the trick.

Oliver--thanks for telling me about your experience with the Eduard set. It's too bad it's so hard to build, since it is the only one that represents the most common add-on armor used in OIF by the Army. You are right about the Blast model doors--they represent non-standard armor manufactured by local units. Eduard's set represents the Army's prepackaged ASK armor which was used to up-armor most of the Humvees in Iraq before the M1114 factory-armored Humvee became more-or-less standard.

Since this is the type of Humvee with add-on armor I really want to build, I'll give Eduard's set a try. It may be a while before I get to it though--I've got several kits lined up that I want to finish before I tackle that Humvee. I'll let you know how it goes!

The sand color of Operation Iraqi Freedom is really confusing if you base it on photographs. I am a photojournalist and it is my experience that when a subject (like armor) is photographed in the desert, most of the time the color is determined by the time of day when it was taken. Early morning shots will give you a yellow orange cast while late afternoon will be more on the red/orange side. Best time is midday when the sun is most high and color temperatures are right (but then that is a different story). The sand in the desert vary in color depending on where you are so sometimes it is more yellow and sometimes it is reddish and this is reflected on the surfaces of the vehicles. Best thing to do is get a color chip.