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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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M60A2 details
Plasticat
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Idaho, United States
Joined: September 03, 2003
KitMaker: 448 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 10:01 AM UTC
Yes, that is the scheme I was talking about.(thanks Jeff). I was in the 8 ID from 77 to 79 and most of the stuff was in the temperate MERDC camo. But every time I went to Graf there were those odd ball looking paint schemes running around. They just happened to be on Cav vehicles when ever I saw them, so that is how I had associated the cav with the camo. I wasn't there in the early 70's, so didn't know it was the standard scheme. Thanks for info and the photos.....sure brings back memories.
Sorry for not responding earlier. I lost track of this thread until it popped up today.


Plasticat
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Idaho, United States
Joined: September 03, 2003
KitMaker: 448 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 10:05 AM UTC
Gino,
Thanks for the link to the MERDC camouflage page. All I can say is COOL!! It would also seem that the MERDC scheme I was used to seeing was the Winter, US & Europe, verdant. Not the temperate scheme. It's good to get this stuff straightened out after all these years.

jhoog59
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 13, 2005
KitMaker: 189 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 30, 2006 - 02:32 PM UTC

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That M109a1 brings back memories of my plain M60 I was assigned to when I arrived at my Co. in Apr 1975.Those were the exact colors most of our m60's and A1's were.Some were just the dark forest/green.When we drew our M60A2's those were in the dark green/forest green,with no camo.As I was heading back home in oct 1978,they were just starting to paint the tanks MERDC.


Ive never seen this camo befor did many vehicles have it. or was it an exception?
jhoog59
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 13, 2005
KitMaker: 189 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 09:29 PM UTC
I noticed in the pictures that most M60A2's had top loading air filters. Were most or all of the production tanks delivered with top loaders?
Jim
crockett
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Ohio, United States
Joined: February 04, 2005
KitMaker: 370 posts
Armorama: 302 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 01:32 AM UTC

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Tamiya's kit depicts an early protoype, and needs a lot of work for an operational vehicle. The main gun tube lost its bore evacuator early on and got a forced air bore clearing system instead--the compressor for this was located in the vehicle's lower rear, and a bulged area was added to the tailplate below the exhaust louvers to accommodate it (build this area up with scrap styrene and epoxy putty). The searchlight is pretty poorly detailed and proportioned--very tedious to fix. Many details on the hull are poorly represented (like the handles on the stowage boxes and triangular outriggers that support the mudguards) or just plain wriong (most of the detail on the rear fenders). Tamiya's wheels are poorly designed, with visible soft plastic keepers disguised as the vehcile hubcaps. Cut the poly hubcaps with a very sharp X-Acto knife because you can't sand off any molding nubs. They fit very loosely on the axles, which looks terrible, so wrap them with a layer or two of cellophane tape to tighten the fit.
AEF Designs offers resin replacement items if you are interested. Personally, I would probably mate their resin turret and hull parts to the excellent Esci/AMT/Italeri/Revell-Germany M60A1 rather than try to make the old Tamiya effort presentable (same kit, but it has appeared in all those companies' boxes). http://www.aefdesigns.com/aefcat.html



Sorry, but as the photo below depicts, your bore evacuator statement is wrong. Our unit 3/33 Armor, had a mixture - some had bore evacuators, some didn't. You have also left out the most prevalent problem with the Tamiya hull..the suspension was dimensioned from a tank sans power pack, so the torsion bars all index to high. The drive sprocket is also out of scale.

These pics are A2's that were operational circa '77-79 in Germany:




Here are some screen dumps from the TM manual (-10) which I still have. PM me if you need any technical information.







regards,

Steve
TankCarl
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Rhode Island, United States
Joined: May 10, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 05:14 AM UTC
All of our A2s had top loading aircleaners.
All 3 types of gun tubes were in our company.Bore evacuator,mounts only,and plain barrels.
38t
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Massachusetts, United States
Joined: November 08, 2005
KitMaker: 8 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 07:49 AM UTC
Just a little off topic, just wanted to shout out a hello to Crocket. I got a kick out of your photos, really liked the one in the motor pool, nothing beats a cold winter day, in a muddy motorpool, while serving with the "tripple pickles".
crockett
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Ohio, United States
Joined: February 04, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, November 04, 2006 - 01:21 AM UTC

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Just a little off topic, just wanted to shout out a hello to Crocket. I got a kick out of your photos, really liked the one in the motor pool, nothing beats a cold winter day, in a muddy motorpool, while serving with the "tripple pickles".


You sound like a "rock" veteran, I was in C 3/33, thats me in the mud @ Hoehnfels and coming back to the rock after an alert.

Steve
jhoog59
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 13, 2005
KitMaker: 189 posts
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 10:50 PM UTC
Anyone know why the commanders coupola is so big? That thing looks like big target to me.
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Monday, November 13, 2006 - 01:21 AM UTC

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Anyone know why the commanders coupola is so big? That thing looks like big target to me.


It isn't that big and it is consistent with other tanks of the time. The size is needed to fit all the optics and electronics associated with the sight, the turret drive system, and the M85 .50 cal system inside of it.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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Posted: Monday, November 13, 2006 - 01:24 AM UTC

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Anyone know why the commanders coupola is so big? That thing looks like big target to me.
It was motorized and had the ability to designate a higher priority target. The commander could point his cupola at the new target and could slew the turret (it would swing automatically to the place where the machine gun pointed). The cupola had to be able to counter rotate when slewing the turret.
Cavalry
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Virginia, United States
Joined: October 30, 2006
KitMaker: 121 posts
Armorama: 101 posts
Posted: Monday, November 13, 2006 - 01:34 AM UTC
I served in Germany from 77-80 with 3/64 Armor out of Schweinfurt. We had those beast until we received the M60A1 Hi RISE Passive tanks. The A2 has some marvelous improvements, but overall she was too prone to have maintenance problems that surpassed human understanding. The Close Breech Scavenger System (CBSS) was interesting, the laser range finder was superb, and the gyro in the cupola allowed you to lay the main gun with the flick of a switch. The electrically closing breech also presented significant maintenance horror stories. I will take an M60A3 any day. That vehicle is a work of art. I still have my Tamiya A2 on the shelf, but based on some superb insights presented here, it may well be time to revisit the vehicle. Keep us posted on your efforts.
jhoog59
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 13, 2005
KitMaker: 189 posts
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Posted: Monday, November 13, 2006 - 10:01 AM UTC
[/quote]It was motorized and had the ability to designate a higher priority target. The commander could point his cupola at the new target and could slew the turret (it would swing automatically to the place where the machine gun pointed). The cupola had to be able to counter rotate when slewing the turret.[/quote]

That sounds like the CITV turret on the M1A2 in use now. I guess that tank was a little to far ahead of its time.
Cavalry
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Virginia, United States
Joined: October 30, 2006
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Posted: Monday, November 13, 2006 - 06:34 PM UTC

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It was motorized and had the ability to designate a higher priority target. The commander could point his cupola at the new target and could slew the turret (it would swing automatically to the place where the machine gun pointed). The cupola had to be able to counter rotate when slewing the turret.[/quote]

That sounds like the CITV turret on the M1A2 in use now. I guess that tank was a little to far ahead of its time.[/quote]

Well, she was a challenge. While the vehicle looks massive, the interior was extremely cramped. You entered the loaders hatch and had 152mm rounds in your face. When she fired the rounds looked like a softball being lobbed down range. I wonder what they ever did with them?
scooch59
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: June 10, 2006
KitMaker: 60 posts
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Posted: Monday, November 13, 2006 - 09:15 PM UTC
Hey I did one and have pictures of it on my photo's site under scooch59! Did it with the MERDEC scheme!!!! SSG MS Kaufman
Cavalry
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Virginia, United States
Joined: October 30, 2006
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Posted: Monday, November 13, 2006 - 11:06 PM UTC

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I wonder what they ever did with them?


The rounds or the tanks? I'm sure a lot of the rounds got shot up by M551's. The tanks, most AVLB's running around today are off of A2 hulls. You can still see the CBSS bulge in the rear.


I would assume that the hulls were probably also used for the ill fated SGT York
Cavalry
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Virginia, United States
Joined: October 30, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 12:46 AM UTC

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I would assume that the hulls were probably also used for the ill fated SGT York


No, they were built off of M48A5 hulls.


Now, there is another marvelous weapon system....too bad the design features never made it to the A2
jhoog59
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 13, 2005
KitMaker: 189 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 01:21 PM UTC
I have read that one of the plans for M60A2 production was mating the A2 turret to the M60 slick hull. The surplus M60 turrets would then be mated to M48 hulls. Is there any truth to that?

Jim
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