Hi

I have some modern Russian armour waiting to be build/painted on my workbench. However, instead of making them all overall green or the modern three or two tone Russian camo scheme I would try something new.

What I have waiting are:
BMD-3
BMP-1
BTR-80
T-72M

I would like to make one of them a really whethered Iraqi vehicle. This will be either the T-72M or the BMP-1. I known the Iraqis used the BMP-1 and the T-72.
But I do not know what version of the T-72? The T-72M? Hope somebody can help on that.....

I would also like to make a vehicle from the Yugoslav civil war. Proferably a Croatian vehicle as I like the colourful checkered shields. However, can anybody help me with which of the above that was used in the Yugoslav civil war?
www.fas.org lists both the BMP-1 and T-72 as used by Croatia and Yugoslav forces, but I am not sure as they might confuse them with BV-80 and M-84 vehicles.

I know the BTR-80 was used for peacekeeping duties (ww.fas.org) but I have not seen any pictures - anybody know if it was in UN, KFOR or IFOR markings?

Anybody has any good ideas for exotic camo or markings for some of the vehicles above?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Hi,
I can help for one item for sure :




BTR-80As were deployed with the Hungarian contingent in charge of the defense of the KFOR HQ in Pristina. Here is a link my gallery
The Russians had some BTR-80s along with the BMDs when they raided to Pristina in June 1999.

Olivier

Thanks Oliver, Did you see any BTR-80s with the normal 14,5mm gun turret?

Anybody else that can help on the Iraqi and Yugoslav civil war questions?

More info:

Best bet for the Iraqi T-72 is the "-m1" version by Tamiya. The turret is a little screwy, but it will give you exactly what you want to start with and is a pleasant build.

The BMP-1 is made only by DML - reissued by Italeri and Zvezda. Stay away from the Trumpeter/hobbycraft version, it is VERY bad.

As for Bosnia, The "Yugoslavs'" had both the indiginous equipment and "proper" russian/soviet equipment. So a T-72 or BMP-1 would be ok.

BTR-80's were in the former Yugoslavia...(Not sure which parts exactly). Both the Russians and the Ukrainians brought them. They were in UN white from all pictures I have seen, both the standard BTR-80 with the HMG turret and the BTR-80 UnSH version (the humpback). The Ukrianians had at least their ambulances in IFOR, KFOR, and SFOR markings, not sure of the Russians.

Here is what I have decided on:

BTR-80 as a white UN vehicle.
BMD-2 as a Russian vehicle in Chechenya with Russian three colour camo.
The T-72 as an Iraqi vehicle with a heavy scratched overall sand colour with Russian green underneath.
BMP-1 as a Croatian vehicle. Colour and camo still to be determinded.

Thanks to everybody for their replies. I still have a question though:

@Jacques Duquette: do you have any sources on the "real" Russian build armour used in Bosnia?
I have really tried to find some confirmations on either T-72s or BMP-1s in Yugoslavia. I have been unable to find that.

Hi Jesper, the Russian airborne battalion had standard BTR-80s with the KPVT MG. IIRC, they wore a three-tone camo at least at the early stage of their deployment. The BMD-1s were plain green.
Both had KFOR markings, in fact SFOR markings with the S coarsely removed (scratched away) and a K (in another case) painted over.

Olivier

Keep an eye out on Tanknet . There are a few people from the former Yugoslavia that post there, and I put up a thread to help you out.

Man Gary, thank goodness you are around. Yes, I totally agree about the BMP-1...I prefer the ESCI kits to the DML ones for another reason...they do not have hollow periscopes to fill in! (I must be really tired to have made a gaf like that...!)

There is info up on tanknet about the T-72/BMP-1 in Yugo question...

The Iraqi's used the T-72M or M1model. The "New Iraqi Army" has base model T-72's donated by Hungary....I'm guessing that these are also M's or M1 models. They are also currently using BMP-1's in some of their new mechanized brigades.



The M-84 was a license built T-72, and I do not recall seeing any BMP's during some of the weapon storage site inspections I've been on while over there. I just checked my IFOR and SFOR handbooks, and it lists the T-72M / M1 as a FWF (Former Warring Faction) vehicle, though I'm not sure as to who used them. The handbooks also list the BMP-1 and BMP-2 as allied (IFOR/SFOR) vehicles. The only BTR's used by the Croats were the BTR-60PB, of which they captured 15 of them from the Federal Forces. The BMD's and BTR-80's were used by IFOR and SFOR troops.

The Croat camo was a bit unusual though. Some were kinda like a hand painted woodland camo pattern much like the U.S. Army's old BDU style uniforms. Others were like WW2 German 3 color camo consisting of a yellow-sand, red-brown and green, some were a medium green base with tan and black sploches on them, or medium green base with olive green, brown and black.

Concord Publications #2010, "The Balkans At War" has some really good color photos of Croat military vehicles



The M-84 is a license built T-72, and they do have the BMP confused with the BVP M-80



It was used by all three IIRC



Concord Publications books on the BMP has some really weird camo schemes if you want to do an Indian vehicle :-)

Hi guys

Thanks a lot for all your effort!! I appreciate it very much. Lots of good info!
@Jacques: Thanks for posting that other tread.

I will switch my build list and use a little artistic license and build the T-72 as a Croatian vehicle that was not upgraded to M-84 specifications. That will also make it possible to use very elaborate camo schemes and some colourful markings. I have already ordered the Bison decal sheet so there should be enough inspiration there.

The BMP-1 will be an Iraqi version with heavy chipped paint.

BTR-80 will be either KFOR, SFOR or UN markings.

BMD will probably still be an Russian vehicle for Chechenya.

Once again I am very grateful for all your help.

So much good info in this thread.

I was wondering if anyone had any decent references that I could take a look at regarding the M-84. I know there are no kits, but I want to hopefully convert the old Kirin T-72 Lion of Babylon kit into a Yugoslavian M-84....?
Any help would be greatly appreciated...?