Finally working to finish up the Academy M12 I started 3 or so years ago, and looking at the accessories provided. What is the item that looks like a table, and how was it used? Looking to place it in the right spot on the vehicle.

Also, most Artillery had the long red and white poles, would the M12, and where would they have been stowed?

Thanks in advance,

Jed

Jed -

The red and white "poles" are aiming stakes. Stowed, they are divided into two or three sections. When the gun is in action....... after the battrery is "laid parallel".....the gunner 'refers" the sight (moves the sight without moving the tube) to a standard deflection (I forget the number of mils...old age) and has one of the gun bunnies place the stakes in the ground...a short one about 5 meters out from the gun and one about another 5 meters from the short stake.

To aim the cannon, the gunner sets the deflection for the fire mission on the sight and moves the barrel until he has the proper sight picture...NFL...Near - Far - Line. This adjusts for any displacement due to recoil as well as any paralax do to the movement of the gun.

Dave

Jed -

I forgot about the table.

Tables were generally used in artillery to hold the charts in the Fire Direction Center. Each FDC would normally have two charts. The tables were also used by the "computers"...real people who calculated the firing data that was sent to the guns. The Fire Direction office would also have a table to hold his tactical map.

Naturally, the tables were also excellent for holding beer bottles and lunch...once the charts, etc were removed. If one were found on a gun, it would be because the gun bunnies swiped it to hold their beer bottles/cans.

BTW...if you are doing a diorama, remember from pre-WWI, artillery weapons (mortars, guns and howitzers) were generally employed in batteries of either 4 or 6 guns. Each battery had an associated Fire Direction Center, ammunition trucks, communications section - both radio and wire, and all kinds of ash and trash. Marine batteries even were allotted a bulldozer on the TO&E - supposedly to dig positions with. (Of course, the same batteries had no allotment of trucks/trailers to move the bulldozer.....ah well!!)

I hope this helps...perhaps some of the other cannon-cockers with more recent experience cna chime in and help wher emy memory has dimmed.

Dave (Whiskey6)

I don't remember getting a table with mine. Perhaps I tossed it with the rest of the extra parts. I do remember the two ramps which were emplaced in front of each track. Other nice touches almost always missing include a gunner's quadrant, to be used to verify quadrant elevation between shots on mukltiple round mission, it just gets slapped on the breech. If the bubble is even close to level the gun is fired-it's an area weapon after all. You can have primer boxes in the reao or discarded behind the piece. They resemble .50 cal ammo boxes only slightly larger. The primers themselves usually hang on the right side somewhere easily accessible, in a bandolier. They about the size of a .30 cal round and are insereted into the banolier pistolero style. You definitely need a bucket, and a swab. A square cut Q-tip is almost the perfect size. You'll need a rammer too. I believe the AFC Club Artillery figure set includes one. If not, it's easy enought to scratch. FDC calculations can be done at the gun, but are usually done farther back, so you may need your radio-telephone with wire leading back to the FDC . You don't need to show the whole wire. Slits are usually dug into the ground with a shovel and the wire is stuffed into the slits to keep it out of the way. HTH.

Guys,
Thanks for the replies. I'm a tanker, and not a gun bunny. *smile*

I'm familiar, generally, with the how the stakes are used. Grew up as a surveyor, and used similar poles for much of our work. It's amazing how similar some of the actions and concepts are!

So, if an M12 carried a set of poles, any idea where they would have been stowed? I know on the M4 105, right rear was considered normal.

The tables (parts E22, E23, E24, E25, E7, and E8), according to the instructions, look like they could be folded flat, and could be folded to create a triangle. I say table, because to a certain extent, they do look like a field table of the time. 18Bravo mentioned ramps, but to me, they don't quite look like ramps (look too fragile). Is it possible that they were a means for the crew to use to life the round up to the level of the breach?

Jed

To lift the projos to the breech, a tray is used with handles on it. The new M40 kit comes with one. Usually a single crew member can just use his man hands, as the modern day 155mm HE projo only weighs 98 pounds, so the WWII ones were more then likely in that neighborhood.

So those funny looking things would be placed behind the tracks? Between them and the blade, be able to reduce the effect of the blast? Hmmm. Interesting.

Jed

Those "tables" are ramps. The Squadron US Self-Propelled Guns in Action has a picture of them on one M12 in the snow. They are placed in front of the tracks on either side. I'm not at all sure about this but I think what happened is the gun would fire, roll back up onto the spade. It stopped on the spade, then rolled back forward onto the ramps.

As to the colored rods I may be very wrong but I think they are part C-47, mounted on the starboard side of the fighting compartment. This could be the cleaning rods so I'm not sure of this.

I'm finishing up my kit of this gun also. One thing I couldn't figure out was the round tube things, parts B19 and 20. I understand they are the powder charges. I'm not 100% clear on this but I believe they go crossway's on the racks behind the gun.

Interesting use for those things, then. But, whatever works, and if you were holding your brakes when you did this, you'd probably break your transmission.

The rods on the right are the cleaning rods. Did a little tinkering research back through. I'll have to see if the local research library has a TM for it (don't know why I didn't think of that earlier).

Sounds like a decent spot for the bag charges. I'd think in actual use, though, to put them off to the side. Looks pretty crowded back there!

Thanks for the information. It will certainly help. At the moment, just tinkering away at this model, not sure what I'm going to do for a display yet, kind of thinking stowed for travel. I ended up replacing the kit tracks (T49 cleat) with the rubber chevron from Tamiya's M4a3 105. Makes for a much better look.

Jed

I was going to do the exact same thing, but I found out the vehicle I'm modeling, Adolph's Assassins, used the cleat tracks.

Are you sure? For some reason, I remember in my research (started this kit 3 years ago, so it's a little fuzzy), Adolph's Assassin had rubber chevron. Hmm. I'll have to dig back into what I looked at.

Either way, I ended up putting the cleat track to good use elsewhere. Someone dug up photo evidence of an M4A3 late model with a set of cleat on them, U.S. Armored unit, around Aug - Sep 44. So they are put into the pile stuff stored away for that kit.

Jed

Not quite. The ramps were used for additional elevation. The use of the 155 GPF in the M12 didn't allow for lots of elevation. The GPF was classified as a "gun" after all and was not supposed to be in the same elevation ballpark as the later 155 Long Tom, however evolutions in usage demanded more range than the elevation on the carriage could provide, so the ramps were added. You rolled the tank up the ramps and then dropped the spade to prevent the gun coming out of the line under recoil. The chassis did not rock back and forth between the ramps and the spade.

The only WW II piece I can remember rolling back and forth on ramps was the Brit 7.2" gun and that was an event to see, let me tell you! Could have been the prototype for the Corvair auto of the 60s, "unsafe at any speed"!

Paul

Very interesting. So I picture the ramps are heavy steel, to support the weight? Although I've seen an Abrams on a set of (pretty rickety) thrown together cement plumb and sync ramps. A CSM had a "good idea" to have a set made in a FOB to plumb and sync tanks when needed - but missed out on the required distance to the boresight panel, and the construction was quite not so stellar.

I guess the question is, with the ramps, were they placed flat side down, or flat side up? Looking at the design provided by Academy, I get the feeling it's flat side down.

Great information here. I'm by far not a gun bunny, so some of the techiques fascinate me. I know of Shermans that would use earthen ramps for greater elevation, but never realised that the Field Artillery guys would have a purpose built tool for that.

Thanks again!

Jed