I had to look twice at these pics to make sure I was seeing what i thought I saw! It's not really figure related, but it at least shows if you have spare parts from previous kits you want to use, you can use them and not worry about being chronologically incorrect! hese were apparently taken at the battle of Fallujah.

a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank">

Is that guy useing a thompson :-) :-)

It's a Russian PPSH SMG... Hardly all that remarkable considerintg the number of Russian weapons which have been in Iraq for decades...

Looks like a Thompson gun.

I guess that guy also follows the saying "What has been proven to be good will always last!" (sorry,.. lol that saying was just made up by myself, I couldn't think of anything authentic lol)

Anyhow, I think it is awesome that he is using a Thompson in this kind of warfare.

Definately not an Thomson, its russian stuff..

It quite clearly ISN'T a Thompson....

ppsh41...



Thompson...

Right, The barrell and drum looks like that of a PPSH. I'm not sure, but wasn't it produced in licence in middle east like other soviet made weapons? Then its perhaps not that old...

From look it also may be a finnish Suomi smg...but thats a little bit unlikely, isn't it?;)

Some of our forces even used the STG44

Lemme find the picture

Yeah the moment I read it was rusian I realized my mistake. I saw the drum mag first and the first ww2 weapon with a drum that came to my mind was the Thompson.

Right, it is a russian PPSH, nonetheless there were versions of the thompson with a drum magazine. Look here,



But yes, the handle on the barrell is missing. and the cooling pipe around the barrell is typical for the russian PPSH.

Probably something they found there. The Iraquis had tons of russian weapons and probably still do.

Could it be a left over from East Germany? I would have thought H&K rifles would be issued to all German troops by now.

I would find it very unprofessional for troops NOT to use their issued weapons... Unless they were up to something "fishy".

Im not so sure about it being unprofessional. I think its clever. The drum magazine and shorter length make the PPSH a far better weapon for room clearing that an M4. The PPSH is a true SMG, made for extremely clse range. The M4 is designed to be used with at least some range in between you and the target.
Seeing as these pictures are indoors, I would say he is room clearing.

The give away was not the drum magazine, but the perforated barrel surround.

And as for using your 'issued' personal weapon, I think that the use of 'liberated' or 'aquired' weapons has been a fact of soldiers life throught the history of warfare.

Cheers
Henk

Maybe he played alot of Call of Duty before being deployed and figured if it works for the game.....

Sorry mate, but I think you are wrong. A PPSH is 843 mm long. An M4 is 838 mm. Basically they are of the same lenght. A M4 is also lighter than an PPSH. Clearing a room is NOT spray and pray, but a combined technique of using different weapons as your rifle, pistol, flashbangs, shock grenades, tactical light, speed and manouver. The PPSH might be ok for room clearing conserning it is a 7,62x25 mm low velocity weapon which prevent the bullet to go through several walls and possibly hurt inocent people, but for a allround weapon I would have choosen a M4 every time. For the record I guess the guys on the pictures are Marines carrying M16A4s.

Erik

Perhaps the larger capacity of the drum magazine was the main consideration?

'When in doubt,...'

:-)

LOL, Thats what I thought!

It looks like the PPSH was recovered at the building they are searching. If you look close you'll see his M-16A4 on his right shoulder. Still a great picture/idea for a dio!

Is the use of the PPSH just personal pref?
This reminds me of some pics posted ages ago, showing Thompson SMGs in use by US soldiers in Iraq. There were pics of them in the back of Humvees etc.
Anyone remember these?

Harry

I think maybe thats the case. I know the Germans favored them over their own weapons in WWII; they didnt freeze up like their own weapons did.

That drum magazine (fully loaded) probably weighs more than the gun itself. I would bet the original use for this weapon was to spray an area for suppression. I would hate to have to lug around more than 4-5 of those drum mags loaded. I would rather use a sawed off shotgun for room to room fighting.

==)

A combat shotgun, like the M1014 Joint Service Combat Shotgun currently in use with the USMC, is not always the end all in close quarter combat.

First, there is lengthy barrel protrusion when clearing buildings in tight spaces and corners when the weapon is at the ready. This runs the risk of the enemy seeing your barrel come around a corner or for a possible weapon disarming situation.

Second, the M1014 shotgun tube magazine only carries either 7 or 8 shells depending on the shell size and one chambered. Yes, you can combat load it with the action open but that is only good for one round at a time. One had better practice under stress how to reload a shotgun...fine motor skills in your fingers tend to lessen as adrenaline dumps...no fun fiddling with or dropping shotgun shells in a fire fight.

Third, you are pretty much limited to 00 buckshot and rifled slug rounds unless you want to go to less lethal rounds. The 00 buckshot's spread pattern increases with distance and the slug very may well cause over penetration far more than a 5.56 mm...remember the 5.56 mm was designed to tumble in human flesh and not over penetrate...slugs leave a big hole going in and a bigger hole coming out and they keep going.

Fourth, not everybody is built physically the same and a fully loaded shotgun becomes heavy when it is properly carried at the ready firing position. A rifle or shotgun is only effective in close quarter combat when it is carried at shouldered shooting ready position and not carried at a low ready position...in a gun fight which will likely take place at 10 feet or less in a building reaction time is a critical factor in getting the first rounds on target and it won't happen if your weapon is pointed at the ground.

I have used pistols, carbines, and shotguns for close quarter combat building clearing and I much prefer my semi automatic pistol and a carbine.

To paraphrase Erik, room clearing is not like in the movies of spraying blindly with an automatic weapon. Richochets happen when that "tactic" is used and Muyrphy's Law says they come back at you and your buddies. Tactics vary from different military and law enforcement forces and with the proper use of methodical tactics, teamwork, and 100% weapon accuracy the threat will be dealt with.

Back to the original topic, it seems very interesting that the Marine is carrying the weapon. Why isn't he using his own? Unless he test fired and zeroed the weapon how does he know it even works if he just found it? Has he trained with it under stress to reload it or deal with stoppages? Just questions I would ask before using a "found" weapon unless it was an emergency situation.

As stated, soldiers using "liberated" weapons is quite common throughout history but I would trust an M16A4 before using some old Russian piece of metal.

:-) The next thing you know is one of the troops will be carrying a British Long Land Pattern Brown Bess Musket- 75 cal. smooth bore Flintlock ! The PPSH-41 was not a bad weapon ! Cheers !

Rob-
MiG-17

You are right Erik, I admit my mistake. I should have looked up specifics to remind myself before speaking. I was thinking of the length of an M16, not the shorter M4. I also forgot how heavy that thing is with the drum loaded on it. Thank you though for bringing up the point of the bullet it fires.

And as Henk said, he is probably thinking something like "When in doubt....." Spray and pray isnt a very tactical strategy, or a particularly useful one most times. But if you get the jump on them and arent worried about possible collateral, it can be effective at short range.