I just got this Tamiya kit, Panzer Kampfwagen II Ausf. F/G, and I was wondering what color it was in real life. The pic on the front of the box is a bad one and i cant tell what the color is. Also would it have zimerit (I think thats what it is called) on it? Thanks for the help.

The color depends on what theatre you plan on modeling your tank in. If you want to make a North Africa version it would be Dark Yellow. If you wanted it to be in Europe it would be Dark Grey. There would definately not have been zimmerit applied to this vehicle.

HTH

My daughter's working on that kit now and I think the box art is supposed to depict an Afrika Corps vehicle that was gray, then painted yellow and the yeloow is chipping off with the gray showing through underneath. Then a dusting of desert sand from the environment. It is a cool little tank.

Thanks for your help. Now I can finaly paint this little tank.

I have this underway as well. Nice little model and quick to build. Good for trying out some new techniques with painting like chipping etc. as they are so cheap now! Pity the figures supplied are so weak! Possibly the worst figures I have seen yet!

I am building it right now also. This is my first model and I am 70% complete - trying to build this as I learn from the posts in armorama! Experimented with drilling out the machine gun and main tank gun barrels and muffler, chipping on the wheels and on the body somewhat. Still need to weather it with pastels and oils and work on the gun barrels. Posting the pics just to show how it is coming along - not saying this is a good example - just think it is important to show pics of progress and get feedback especially when chatting with others in the forums. Hopefully I will do a better job on my next model. GR8Voyager

Hi Matrix, I don't want to make it seem that I'm discrediting Adam here - I"M NOT, and though I am a pretty fussy modeler for accuracy, I just want to tell you if you do plan on painting this tank as an Afrika Korp panzer, the color would have been SANDGELB RLM 79 (sand-yellow ) or SANDBRAUN RLM 79a ( Sand-brown ) and NOT DUNKELGELB ( Dark Yellow ). I know alot of modelers think what look's like dark yellow on the panzer's in North Africa is actually sand-yellow/brown. I also thought at one time that Afrika Korps used dunkelgelb on their Pz.II & III's but through further research and a " very heated debate " with a well known modeler/historian, I was proved wrong.
...."Why am I telling you this ? " - because I don't want to see you make the same mistake, especilly if you plan to enter your Pz.II into competition. There were also some panzer's that had an earth-brown camo pattern over the the sand base. There were also panzer's that were still in dunkelgrau ( dark-grey ) that were coming over on ship's from Europe.

Adam Is right about the DUNKELGRAU if you plan on doing a panzer II in Europe, but know that though they saw much action in 1939 - 40 Poland & France ...... when the the Germans invaded Russia, the Pz.II's took a back seat to the newer & heavier panzer III & IV's and were used in each Panzer regiment, for reconnaissance. They were used in platoon strength this way.

HEY - THIS IS JUST FOR ACCURACY ........ YOU PAINT YOUR PZ.II PINK WITH POLKA-DOTS IF THAT'S WHAT SATISFIES YOU & MAKES YOU HAPPY

- ralph

Screamingeagle, that was very useful. I didn't like the tamiya color Tamiya recommended for this panzer so I ended up using an enamel. Someone recommended and I ended up using Model Master RAL 8000 1941 Afrika Grunbraun on this panzer, I sprayed it over a panzer grey base - not sure if you can really see the color. I was wondering how far off is it from what you are recommending? Also, do you know of an acrylic that would match the color? I really am concerned about using enamels.

Thanks, GR8Voyager

QUOTE:
"Hi Matrix, I don't want to make it seem that I'm discrediting Adam here - I"M NOT, and though I am a pretty fussy modeler for accuracy, I just want to tell you if you do plan on painting this tank as an Afrika Korp panzer, the color would have been SANDGELB RLM 79 (sand-yellow ) or SANDBRAUN RLM 79a ( Sand-brown ) and NOT DUNKELGELB ( Dark Yellow ). - ralph"

--

Screamingeagle, I sent my friend who recommended I use Model Master RAL 8000 1941 Afrika Grunbraun on this panzer the information you suggested. He wanted to bet me $20.00 that the information you gave wasn't accurate and if people were really that picky about the 'right' colors at competitions, you would not win based on using those color choices.

Among other things, he said it would be right if tanks could fly (using RLM 79 or RLM79A) because those were Luftwaffe colors and that using RAL 8000 1941 Afrika Grunbraun like I did was indeed the corect color and that is why he suggested that color.

Not trying to get you defensive, but are you sure? I'd love to bet him the $20 - I could buy two more of these panzers with that money and start a desert capaign ...

GR8Voyager

Not to get in the middle of a "what's the proper color?" debate, just an observation of modern painting standards in the US Army for the last 20 years: when soldiers painted vehicles, there were plenty of color variations due to how well the paint was stirred; what color was being painted over; were brushes or spray guns being used; were brushes cleaned between colors?(not!); were other colors added to make the paint last(yes!). Even the factory applied NATO schemes differ in shades based on age, wear & weathering. I've got vehicles that the upper surfaces look like totally different shades from the sides due to the sun, and this stuff is sitting in New England. Imagine what the sun in North Africa does to paint schemes, let alone the blowing sand and billowing dust of the desert.

That's why I go by the "eye" method. If it looks good, it probably is good. The more someone picks at the "proper" color argument, the more I think they've never really been around military vehicles. Of course, I was never in the DAK in the 1940s and they may have had an official "Color Nazi" going around making sure the crews properly painted their vehicles in the correct shade.

I am definately with Gunnie on this one. Tanks only look like the "official" color when they roll off the assembly line. After that weather conditions, dirt, dust, and wear & tear placed on the vehicle by the crew tend to change the color quite a bit. The "eye" method has always worked for me.

Yes, but I'm not Gunnie

Not trying to stir anything up. When I explained to my friend that there might be a better color to start with and the context of this discussion thread, he tried to explain to me the difference in regulations in the OKH versus the OKL (German Army versus Luftwaffe).

The point he was trying to get across was that each had their own regulations and paint numbers. RLM79, although close to RAL8000 (his recommendation and what I used) , was strictly used by the Luftwaffe. If you are talking strictly about what they would have used, he suggested RAL8000 would have been the official paint designation.

He emailed me a few pages which I converted to pdf on this. I thought it was pretty interesting and to his point, on the last page it states what he said about the unliklihood of RLM79 being used. "This isn't about color of uniforms", he told me, "it's about standards for paint that were officially and quanitfiably set".

I agree with adam and sabot that none of this really matters - just passing along information I have received. On the one hand, I was happy with the color of my panzer, on the other hand, I learned a great deal more about colors than I knew before when all I did was just go to the model store and paid for the RAL8000 bottle. That is the great thing about these forums. I really wanted to make a quick $20.00 off my friend but that's another story.

Again, I'm not trying to start a big debate, originally just wanted to get the guidance on what was "officially" used and got two POV's - one from screaming eagle and one from my friend.


Anyway, here's the detail. I am going to borrow his book over the weekend because these pages looked interesting.

The book is titled Camoflage Colors Wehrmact Heer, 1939-1945 by Tomas Chory and he assured me it is one of the most accurate books on color for the German army.

Here's the link to the pdf file- you'll need the acrobat reader:

Camoflage Colors Wehrmact Heer, 1939-1945


Again, just passing information along not rousing trouble. GR8Voyager

I have seen this discussed many times as to whether RLM 79 was used and I have yet to see anyone provide a definitive answer. The original Afrika colors were RAL 8000 Gelbbraun and RAL 7008 Graugrün. In 1942 they were replaced by RAL 8020 Braun and RAL 7027 Grau(a very yellow tannish gray).

PH

You are, of course, correct. :-) I'll just blame it on a long day.

One other comment just about Tamiya's labelling of that kit. It is not an Ausf F/G. It is an Ausf F pure and simple. The Ausf G was a totally different experimental vehicle.

PH

And gentlemen, isn't it time Mr. Tamiya put some of those Wespe molds to use on new Panzer II? And how about (dare I suggest) a new Marder II? Come on, Mr. Tamiya, we're ready!

....Sorry GR8 I APOLOGIZE ! ... I was looking at my old Lufttwaffe chart and didn't even realize it. Your friend is right and I made a terrible mistake through my hastiness. I was wondereing what happened to this thread. The BASE color's that would have been used on the Pz.II's in Rommel's Afrika Korps are:
RAL 7021 Dunkelgrau - RAL 7008 khakibraun - RAL 8000 Gelb-braun
Due to the intense desert sun and dust, the panzers did have a very sandy appearance.
I'M RELLY SORRY FOR THAT CARELESS MISTAKE.

One thing I will say, even though Chory's book is very good, it should not be known as the final word. Officially there are NOT suppose to be any ORIGINAL color swatches from the panzer color mixes that survived WW2.

I can't recommend any acrylic's because I paint my armor only in enamels. AND PAUL IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT ABOUT THE AUSF G

- ralph