I'm wondering what everybody thinks of the relative value of various items for modeling. So far in my re-entry to modeling I've built OOB kits. Although I still have plenty of kits to practice on to improve my modeling skills I'm beginning to wonder 'what next?' Like most people I'm on a budget so I can't afford to spend unlimited money on my hobby. What do you all think are the best values? Should I go with expensive kits, like AFV Club, that include a lot of extras? Should I spend my money on AM tracks, photo etch kits, turned barrels, or what?

I guess that kinda depends on what you want to do with the hobby. There are modelers who want to create THE MOST ACCURATE representation possible. They go PE, AM stuff all the way and a $30 kit runs'em $100.
There are others where OOTB is great and they simply make the best of what's in the box.
Personnally, I fall in the area of I want the best looking most real life looking (maybe not the most accurate) kit. I will basically super detail with scrathbuilt items. I replace poorly molded handles. I add details like periscopes, or additional stoage, or I will replace headlight protectors. But I do it with scratch built items. No AM or PE (2 kids, 3 dogs, 3 cats get to eat before my hobby does [love'em all])
I buy almost primarily all Tamiya, they are good solid kits, not perfect, but available and won't break the bank. Then I go and get as much wire, foil, construction paper..... and go from there.
One thing I wouldn't do is go cheap, if you can help it don't buy a kit on acheap price alone. You'll frustrate the booger out of yourself and you'll end up with a shelf full of 1/2 built kits.

Ok - I'm off my soap box now. Sorry.

I build OOB most of the time, since I am on a budget also.. My fav kits are the Tamiya (later kits).. I do buy kits when Hobby Lobby has their 50% off sale (around every 4-6 months) on them and pick up many kits fairly cheap.. I buy many of the early Tamiya kits to practice on along with the cheaper Italeria(sp) and early Dragon kits.. I am barely touching on the PE and may do one with modelkasten tracks just to say I have done them, but for the most part I keep it OOB..

I agree with Slodder, and would like to add a note about buying a cheap models - I ended chucking them because I was so disgusted with the quality...

I've listened to the messages the members here have said about certain models and companys and have steered way clear of them. I guess it also depends what subjects you usually build...

IMHO the bottom line is You Get What You Pay For. If you buy a cheap model, that's exactly what you have, a cheap model. Yes, you can correct many of the flaws but is it really worth the effort? I don't buy many armor models because I am mainly a figure person but on the occasion I do get something bigger I usually try to get something decent. Don't get me wrong, I will not spend $99 for a Dragon Wagon but I will spend around $40 - $50 for a model and then get some photo etched parts for it. That's what I do.

Well, the ONLY reason I buy the cheaper models is for PRACTICE.. Then they usually go to the kids, who make short work of them..

Harry




That is just what I've been doing so far. I've got a dozen or so that I plan to practice on.

Oh yeah, to the other Hobby Lobby lurkers in this forum.

I build for me. I have entered contests in the past, and actually won once in a while. Keep building. Keep learning. I have a PE set and a model that I am almost afraid to start because I keep thing it won't look half as good as what someone else has done. Then I wake up and realize "who cares." Who am I trying to impress? Only me, and some of you guys when I post my pics.

I guess in the end analysis all I am trying to say is that you don't need to spend $200.00 on aftermarket crap to make your model look good.

#:-) #:-) You know what..I've been building on and off for 30+ years and I still have models that i want to throw against the walls sometimes. Even good old Tamiya models. It just so happens the last "work of art" that I felt like crushing was the Italeri Einheitskoffer Radio Truck. That was my fault though, and not the manufacturer's. I feel that the best "bang for the buck" would have to be Italeri models. They are cheap and build up into fine looking models. I also think that your reason for building the model plays a role in what you build. I build for fun and not competition...therefore I don't care if there are 10 rivits as opposed to 100. I still try for accuracy..like not putting Africa markings on a Russian front vehicle or putting zimmerit on vehicles in the Polish campaign. I also paint my vehicles in the appropriate schemes for the theater and season which the vehicle depicts. If you build for competition then you will probably spend more on your models because the very smallest details count. Economics...especially in this economy...play a major role in what i build. A few months ago Model Expo had a fantastic sale on Italeri stuff. I got a Panther, Sherman and three Opel Blitz variants for $27.00. A most excellent deal. I always look for the deals and if you look hard enough you'll find them. Jeff

Halfyank makes a good point here.

We modelers , esp. armor modelers, are spoiled rotten by all the after market goodies out there today. It's really quite amazing. Maybe even 'mind-boggling' would be a better word for it, but sometimes I think it is really too much of a good thing. Know what I mean? We have become sort of 'overwhelmed' at each and every turn anymore.

I was looking up the items for the new DML Nashorn the other day and came up with close to $150+ worth of after-market parts out there now just for this kit alone-- tracks, barrels, several PE sets and new figures to boot. This is really something for a kit that's been out what, a month or two on the American scene!

Now I'll be the very first to say that it is a real temptation when looking at a lot of these items to throw caution to the wind, grab the plastic, and 'go for it', but have learned through bitter experience that all is not what it seems to be, esp. for those of us that are not qualified, or never will be qualified to make some of the things that are out on the aftermarket for all these kits.

So I was thinking it would be kind of nice for this site maybe to have a forum or some such a thing that would be soley for the good old home-made stuff. As Shep Paine called it "The Art of Gismology." After all, all of these new items today are really just a recent thing and I know that many, many really nice models were being built before all of this new stuff came along.

Now don't get me wrong here, I'm all for the new stuff, the more the better, if for nothing else than just to look at and dream about making someday, but I think that we also need to think about getting back to the basics as well. To try to remember and pass on some of the 'old tricks of the trade' , to refine and develop more of this 'art of gismology' that Paine talks about. Making a lot of our own home-made items for vehicles can release that extra money we would rather spend on the high-profile items like tracks and such that really make a statement on a model as opposed to items we bought and stuffed inside someplace or other that nobody is going to see other than ourselves anyway.

But these are just my thoughts on the subject here, for what's it's worth.

Take care, sgrity. #:-)

I'm one of those folks that buys all the aftermarket stuff. Friul tracks, because the rubber-band ones are a pain to paint and usually don't have much detail, and the individual link ones usually have those mold circles on all 200 of them and are a pain to install. PE, just because I think it really adds to the kit. Aluminum barrel - saves having to fill that seam and try to sand the inside of a muzzle brake. Zimmerit because I'm too chicken to try the putty method. Aftermarket decals because, what the hell, I've bought everything else in sight, what's another six bucks?

Actually, all this stuff that's supposed to add to the ease of assembling the thing can just add to the amount of work. I'm putting some aftermarket zimmerit on a Tiger II and the stuff doesn't fit at all correctly, and that's a lot of tedious work to fix. The aluminum barrels need as much work on the "blob of metal" muzzle brake as the plastic barrel would have needed. Photo etch takes as much time to install as the original kit. But, there's just no complaining about that Friul track - that stuff's magnificient.

I really wich I could just build straight OOB. It would be sooooo much cheaper and I'd probably be just as satisfied with the end product.

Samething here. Actually aside from the Friul tracks and gun barrels, adding PE and all other AM stuff prolongs the building time, but the end result is just great.

Let me guess, you mainly build WWII German armor right. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, I want to clear that up before I upset someone. If you like to build post war American armor it is a little different story. If you like post war American armor you don't have to deal with a lot of temptation, that's one good side to it.

After that show I decided that most of my armor from now on will use aftermarket products on most my projects. I took a Tamiya bulldog that I had done some scratch building on. It looked pretty good to me but I put a $12 kit up against some that I would guess had close to $100 in them and there was a huge difference. Mine looked like a toy (it was originaly designed to be a toy so I can't complain) and the other models looked like reproductions. I had a really great time at the show and was realy inspired to make my models as detailed as possible from now on. If I am going to put the limited time I have into making the best reproduction of something I can then I am going to use all the tools I can to help. Another way to help decide wether to use aftermarket product would be to decide if you have more time or money. I am short on both but at least I can make more money. If I get to put my heart into 3-4 projects a year then spending money on extra parts for each one won't kill me. If I built 1-2 a month, things would be different.

I mostly do figures, but sometimes I see a vehicle that I like and have to go for it.. I spend lots of time on research and want to get as close to the real thing as I can. If that means getting some extras, well.. extra $20 spent on the model is not much IMO if there are some nice looking conversions or update sets available.

For instance I have three armor models in the stash at home. The Warrior will be corrected with Accurate Armour's update set, Scimitar will be converted to Scorpion by a set that I got as a present from a fellow modeler... and I got an interior set for my M88 that I'm just building (I had to open the belly of that beast). Besides that I love to scratchbuild some details to improove the overall efect.

I have never entered a contest and build exclusively for myself. As I've said, I want to get as close to the real thing as I can, and since I don't do much armor (around 5 built so far) I think I can spend couple of extra bucks for the AM stuff.

Mario M.

Speaking of Hobby Lobby sales...
They are running their half price sale on plastic models begining tomorrow. I plan on picking up a Tamiya Early Production Sherman, a Tamiya Jumbo, and a Revell/Italeri M7 Priest. I know these aren't state of the art but I hope I can make something out of them. Since I only do Allied armor I don't have all the choices in the world and they fit my budget.

As far as spending the extra money on after market products for my models, I generally do. First, I get more modelling time for my dollar. I am not a mass production modeller and don't feel that having 50 built models on my shelf makes me fullfilled. It is the build, and the questions from the occassional viewer asking me how it was done that really gets my juices flowing. The discussions over a problem and the problem solving is the enjoyment of Aftermarket kits. I have never spent a dime I regretted(except in an oob model that is the poorest example of a kit. And then you have to give the obligatory "It's OOB")or didn't recieve full enjoyment out of. I have to admitt that i research the manufacturers of the AM first to see if they are a consistent in thier quality.
Secondly, I like to support the cottage industry as well as the big boys, to provide them reason to keep producing to earn my dollar. I love the variety of products and depth of detail these guys provide us modellers. I like the fact that we have over 4 manufacturers of individual tracks. That we have more than 4 producers of PE, and have the choices of degree in quality, price and depth of detail is a result of healthy competion. If they weren't making the money, we wouldn't have the choices we do. And this translates over to kit manufacturers too.
We are a wide variety of modellers with diverse desires. Is spending the money for AM worth it. YES, for me. It's all relative!