Here goes a question that bothers me for some time...
Why some .50 mguns have this barrel external "thing" and others (almolst all of them) don´t? What is that and what the purpose of it?
Thanks!!
Marcelo
Hosted by Darren Baker
.50 question
Urutu_
Joined: April 21, 2006
KitMaker: 216 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 12, 2007 - 05:16 PM UTC
Hi guys,
Here goes a question that bothers me for some time...
Why some .50 mguns have this barrel external "thing" and others (almolst all of them) don´t? What is that and what the purpose of it?
Thanks!!
Marcelo
Here goes a question that bothers me for some time...
Why some .50 mguns have this barrel external "thing" and others (almolst all of them) don´t? What is that and what the purpose of it?
Thanks!!
Marcelo
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Monday, February 12, 2007 - 05:20 PM UTC
Hi Marcelo
It's a M19 Blank Firing Attachment used with blank cartridges for training.
More info on Globalsecurity.org
HTH
Frenchy
It's a M19 Blank Firing Attachment used with blank cartridges for training.
More info on Globalsecurity.org
HTH
Frenchy
Urutu_
Joined: April 21, 2006
KitMaker: 216 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 12, 2007 - 06:21 PM UTC
Thanks a lot Frenchy!
I realy didn´t know that!!!!
I thoght it could be some kind of structure reinforcement....
Bye,
Marcelo
I realy didn´t know that!!!!
I thoght it could be some kind of structure reinforcement....
Bye,
Marcelo
AJLaFleche
Joined: May 05, 2002
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Posted: Monday, February 12, 2007 - 06:37 PM UTC
If you look closely, come Academy Ma Deuces have the hardware for this molded on.You only need to add some stretched sprue.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Monday, February 12, 2007 - 06:52 PM UTC
The Trumpeter M1A1/A2 kits have one as well. I also think the Italeri M1A2 has one too. It is funny to see someone make a tank depicted in combat, but then mount the Hoffman Device and BFA.
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 02:22 AM UTC
Blanks have wooden plugs instead of bullets, and they could cause injury if allowed to fly free. The BFA shreds them.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 03:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Blanks have wooden plugs instead of bullets, and they could cause injury if allowed to fly free. The BFA shreds them.
Nope. The blanks have crimped ends on the cartridge and a wax plug. The BFA allows for the backpressure to build up for the gun to operate properly. Since there is no projectile going down the barrel to allow pressure to build, without the BFA, the gun is a giant bolt action rifle and will only fire single shot.
From Army FM
"Cartridge, Caliber .50, Blank, M1A1
Used by the M2 machine gun with the M19 Blank Ammunition Firing Attachment, the M85 machine gun with the M20 Blank Firing Attachment, and the M107 Long Range Sniper Rifle. The cartridge is used to simulate firing in training exercises.
The cartridge is identified by the absence of a bullet. The M1A1 differs from the M1 in that the M1A1 has a rosette crimp at the mouth."
briansturm
Joined: April 19, 2006
KitMaker: 11 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 03:40 AM UTC
Greetings: Marcello, please allow me to shed a little bit of light into this subject as I am presently in the military serving as the S4 for the 1/111th IN (Stryker) and soon to get a command for deployment to Iraq. The object of interest protruding at the end of the 50 cal is a safety measure which is nothing more than a high speed adaptor to prevent any type of pressure from the weapon when fired during training exercise. It is often called as the MILE gear that shoots a laser at enemy target. Once the target is hit it will then render the target or enemy combatant as non effective with a non stopping annoying whistle. Only the "referee" or Officer in Charge (OC) with what we call the God key is he able to turn the annoying whistle off from the “dead” person. The area of training that transpires is often at the National Training Center (NTC) at Fort Irwin CA or at the Joint Ready Training Center (JRTC) in Deutschland—Mannheim, or at the Mission Rehearsal Exercise (MRE) at Fort Polk LA. There are adaptors for just about every weapon in the US [auto-censored]nal from the M4 to the MK 19 (which shoots 40mm grenades) or the 125 mm main guns on the M1A3. I hope this helps to answer your query to what appears to be a peculiar adaptor at the end of the Ma Deuce. Kind Regards, Brian
Banshee3Actual
Joined: February 07, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 03:56 AM UTC
WTH? Hi-speed adapter?
it's a BFA. By enclosing the M2HB Muzzle it builds enough pressure up to cycle the weapon, something normally accomplished by the bullet leaving the Muzzle and the Propellent gases inpinging on the Muzzle face in conjunction with Newtons 3rd Law of Motion. The M2 is recoil operated, with just blank ammo the gases simply escape.
it's a BFA. By enclosing the M2HB Muzzle it builds enough pressure up to cycle the weapon, something normally accomplished by the bullet leaving the Muzzle and the Propellent gases inpinging on the Muzzle face in conjunction with Newtons 3rd Law of Motion. The M2 is recoil operated, with just blank ammo the gases simply escape.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:00 AM UTC
I agree with Gino, no wooden plugs on any .50 cal blank rounds since I've been in the Army. Just under 24 years and counting since the first time I fired a .50 with BFA.
NebLWeffah
Joined: October 13, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:02 AM UTC
....mmmm, don't think so Brian. Gino has it right.
See the early posts in the thread that talk about the Blank Firing Attachement (BFA). The MILES gear (MULTIPLE INTEGRATED LASER ENGAGEMENT SYSTEM) has a transmitter attached near where the post sight is at the point where the barrel meets the main body of the gun. That's the transmitter for the laser light that can strike an 'enemy' during an exercise and cause their sensors to emit the loud beep. That really has nothing to do with the BFA. The BFA allows blank rounds to be fired for training purposes and channels the backpressure from the round to operate the bolt as Gino had said. Without the BFA, there's no backpressure and the bolt will only cycle through with only one blank round being fired.
Bob
See the early posts in the thread that talk about the Blank Firing Attachement (BFA). The MILES gear (MULTIPLE INTEGRATED LASER ENGAGEMENT SYSTEM) has a transmitter attached near where the post sight is at the point where the barrel meets the main body of the gun. That's the transmitter for the laser light that can strike an 'enemy' during an exercise and cause their sensors to emit the loud beep. That really has nothing to do with the BFA. The BFA allows blank rounds to be fired for training purposes and channels the backpressure from the round to operate the bolt as Gino had said. Without the BFA, there's no backpressure and the bolt will only cycle through with only one blank round being fired.
Bob
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:04 AM UTC
Brian, you need to get some of your facts straight, young Captain. Especially before you command troops in combat. At this rate, you are likely to get someone killed.
It is not part of the MILES (Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System) gear, but used in conjunction with it. The laser for the MILES gear is a separate box that clamps onto the barrel.
OC means Observer Controller, not the same as OIC (Officer In Charge). The individual has a yellow key that he takes out of his transmitter, disabling the weapon so he can't continue to shoot, and turns his own buzzer off. The OC uses his green key to reset the soldier or weapons system and brings them back to life.
JRTC is at Ft Polk, LA. The Combat Maneuver Training Center (CMTC) is at Hohenfels, Germany. An MRE is the name of one of the exercises you may conduct at any of the above training centers.
I'm assuming you actually meant the 120mm main gun of a M1A1 or M1A2 tank. There is no such vehicle as an M1A3 with a 125mm main gun. There is no BFA for them though, they fire Hoffman devices (flash-bang-smoke simulators) to simulate main gun firing.
I know this from 13 years active duty and being an OC at the NTC for 3 of those years, after also being an Artillery Battery Commander in Iraq.
Edit: Guess I wasn't the only one throwing up the BS flag...3 replies while I was posting.
Quoted Text
...is nothing more than a high speed adaptor to prevent any type of pressure from the weapon when fired during training exercise. It is often called as the MILE gear that shoots a laser at enemy target.
It is not part of the MILES (Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System) gear, but used in conjunction with it. The laser for the MILES gear is a separate box that clamps onto the barrel.
Quoted Text
Only the "referee" or Officer in Charge (OC)
OC means Observer Controller, not the same as OIC (Officer In Charge). The individual has a yellow key that he takes out of his transmitter, disabling the weapon so he can't continue to shoot, and turns his own buzzer off. The OC uses his green key to reset the soldier or weapons system and brings them back to life.
Quoted Text
Joint Ready Training Center (JRTC) in Deutschland—Mannheim, or at the Mission Rehearsal Exercise (MRE) at Fort Polk LA.
JRTC is at Ft Polk, LA. The Combat Maneuver Training Center (CMTC) is at Hohenfels, Germany. An MRE is the name of one of the exercises you may conduct at any of the above training centers.
Quoted Text
...or the 125 mm main guns on the M1A3.
I'm assuming you actually meant the 120mm main gun of a M1A1 or M1A2 tank. There is no such vehicle as an M1A3 with a 125mm main gun. There is no BFA for them though, they fire Hoffman devices (flash-bang-smoke simulators) to simulate main gun firing.
I know this from 13 years active duty and being an OC at the NTC for 3 of those years, after also being an Artillery Battery Commander in Iraq.
Edit: Guess I wasn't the only one throwing up the BS flag...3 replies while I was posting.
briansturm
Joined: April 19, 2006
KitMaker: 11 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:18 AM UTC
Greetings: Friends, every weapon in the US military that is used during training does not shoot anything except laser and each soldier wear two harnesses with battery pack, one on the torso and the other on the helmet. As mentioned before the harness when struck by a laser (adaptor at the end of the M2 for example) from an enemy weapon sets off an annoying whistle. I don’t believe there are any wooden bullets and the only one I have ever heard was what the Japanese used against our soldiers during WWII. Indeed, the blank ammo has its ends crimped without round. Kind Regards, Brian
briansturm
Joined: April 19, 2006
KitMaker: 11 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:20 AM UTC
Greetings: Indeed, you are correct with the 120 mm. Thanks Brian
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Greetings: Marcello, please allow me to shed a little bit of light into this subject as I am presently in the military serving as the S4 for the 1/111th IN (Stryker) and soon to get a command for deployment to Iraq. The object of interest protruding at the end of the 50 cal is a safety measure which is nothing more than a high speed adaptor to prevent any type of pressure from the weapon when fired during training exercise. It is often called as the MILE gear that shoots a laser at enemy target. Once the target is hit it will then render the target or enemy combatant as non effective with a non stopping annoying whistle. Only the "referee" or Officer in Charge (OC) with what we call the God key is he able to turn the annoying whistle off from the “dead” person. The area of training that transpires is often at the National Training Center (NTC) at Fort Irwin CA or at the Joint Ready Training Center (JRTC) in Deutschland—Mannheim, or at the Mission Rehearsal Exercise (MRE) at Fort Polk LA. There are adaptors for just about every weapon in the US [auto-censored]nal from the M4 to the MK 19 (which shoots 40mm grenades) or the 125 mm main guns on the M1A3. I hope this helps to answer your query to what appears to be a peculiar adaptor at the end of the Ma Deuce. Kind Regards, Brian
That's a good amount of misinformation in one post. Very scary if you consider someone with this amount of bad will be in command of US troops in combat.
I've been riding around in tanks and armored vehicles with a .50 cal mounted in front of me since 1983. Fired more gunneries on more tanks of various types than you've got years in the Army.
Oh, and every Soldier equipped with MILES has a yellow key to turn off the kill buzzer. It is located on the end of the personal weapon transmitter. You take that key out and insert it in your MILES harness and turn it. Then the buzzer turns off. That way a "dead" Solider cannot continue to engage with his weapon since the weapon key is needed to turn on the transmitter. A tank commander would use his orange key from the back of his .50 cal transmitter to shut his harness off if he dies.
The God Gun has a green key attached that is needed to reset the individual harness or to "reload" weapon systems (like a tank or Brad) after it has been killed.
Good luck and be safe over there.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
every weapon in the US military that is used during training does not shoot anything except laser
No they fire blanks, which activates the laser. If you don't have any blanks, you can't fire the laser unless you cheat and push the button on the transmitter box.
Quoted Text
...when struck by a laser (adaptor at the end of the M2 for example)
No, the adapter has nothing to do with the laser. Re-read the above posts.
Please educate yourself more before taking Soldiers into combat. You are starting to scare me.
briansturm
Joined: April 19, 2006
KitMaker: 11 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:43 AM UTC
Greetings: Robin, I understand that you can take the small yellow key out of from the end of your weapon and turn the whistling off, but every time I was at FT Irwin--we were told not to remove the key for they could be lost which translated into perhaps an article 15. These were comments from the top of my head as I browse this site with limited time. I don't have the time to sit and research every little painting scheme on every Panther or Tiger. However, when I see something interesting then I occasionally chime in. I am more then delighted if I have a senior NCO correct me on my wrong acronyms such as the OC and the wrong location with JRTC, but belittling someone is something that is unacceptable. Well I made my point. Thanks for the words of encouragement. Kind Regards, Brian
Grumpyoldman
ConsigliereJoined: October 17, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:46 AM UTC
Some how I think I would prefer to follow the Colonel, the Major and the Lt Commander into battle.
Epi
Joined: December 22, 2001
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:48 AM UTC
Here is something that I didn't know until a year and a half ago while we where training up my Brigade to got to Iraq at JRTC at Ft. Polk.
Along with the BFA and .50 blanks, there are also BLUE PLASTIC rounds and it's on barrel for training purposes too.
PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG GINO AND ROB.
During vehicle convoy lane training, the crews would change out the regular barrel for a special barrel that was marked with blue tape and use blue plastic rounds, I mean that the casing was plastic and the projectile (bullet, round, etc.) was plastic. They said you had to use lots of CLP in order for these things to work properly and not jam the weapon.
Gino or Rob, can you tell us what the correct nomenclature is for theis such barrel and round i am talking about?
Just some added info since it is in the same topic as training equipment for the .50 Cal.
Along with the BFA and .50 blanks, there are also BLUE PLASTIC rounds and it's on barrel for training purposes too.
PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG GINO AND ROB.
During vehicle convoy lane training, the crews would change out the regular barrel for a special barrel that was marked with blue tape and use blue plastic rounds, I mean that the casing was plastic and the projectile (bullet, round, etc.) was plastic. They said you had to use lots of CLP in order for these things to work properly and not jam the weapon.
Gino or Rob, can you tell us what the correct nomenclature is for theis such barrel and round i am talking about?
Just some added info since it is in the same topic as training equipment for the .50 Cal.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I am more then delighted if I have a senior NCO correct me on my wrong acronyms such as the OC and the wrong location with JRTC, but belittling someone is something that is unacceptable. Well I made my point. Thanks for the words of encouragement.
Brian, No, you have senior officers who are concerned for your lack of general knowledge on weapons systems and your lax attitude about it, especially as an Infantryman. We are afraid that this could result in unnecessary casualties. I hope not.
Quoted Text
Gino or Rob, can you tell us what the correct nomenclature is for theis such barrel and round i am talking about?
Pete, I don't know the nomenclature, but it is called Simunition. I didn't know the Army was now using it. I have only seen Marines using it. It is basically a paintball system for 5.56mm weapons. Here is a website for one of the manufacturers of it. Simunition
briansturm
Joined: April 19, 2006
KitMaker: 11 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:51 AM UTC
In fact, there were some soldiers who thought they were smart and shaved their yellow key in effect to use in the place of the God gun. I don't know how they did it, but if Joe has time he can figure out anything. This occured when I was a platoon leader a few years back. Again, thank you for correcting me with the miss information. I have never claimed to be an expert in this. Just learning like everyone else and always open for corrections. Kind Regards, Brian
Epi
Joined: December 22, 2001
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:53 AM UTC
WOW, I just saw the post that Rob and Gino posted while I was typing and the response from the "OFFICER" taking soldiers into combat.
I agree with the US ARMY MAJOR (GINO), starting to scare me too. And I'm sorry US ARMY MAJOR 'HEAVYARTY" AND "SABOT" that you two got demoted to senior NCO's.
I agree with the US ARMY MAJOR (GINO), starting to scare me too. And I'm sorry US ARMY MAJOR 'HEAVYARTY" AND "SABOT" that you two got demoted to senior NCO's.
Epi
Joined: December 22, 2001
KitMaker: 3,586 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 04:58 AM UTC
Gino,
Actually sir, the projectile that came out of the casing was all plastic, no paint in it. I might be mistaken because I only handled a few belts of it while we pushed ammo the the lanes. I actually didn't get to see it fired. I do know what your talking about when it comes to SIM rounds. The AIir Force guys use them here in San Antonio at the MOUT sight at Camp Bullis. Our SGM wants totry and get some for us to use on our train up in the next couple of months.
Actually sir, the projectile that came out of the casing was all plastic, no paint in it. I might be mistaken because I only handled a few belts of it while we pushed ammo the the lanes. I actually didn't get to see it fired. I do know what your talking about when it comes to SIM rounds. The AIir Force guys use them here in San Antonio at the MOUT sight at Camp Bullis. Our SGM wants totry and get some for us to use on our train up in the next couple of months.
Epi
Joined: December 22, 2001
KitMaker: 3,586 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 05:06 AM UTC
Dugh, I should have just googled it. I found it Gino. Here they are.
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Ball, Plastic Practice, M858
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Tracer, Plastic Practice M860
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Ball, Plastic Practice, M858
Cartridge, Caliber .50, Tracer, Plastic Practice M860
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 05:11 AM UTC
Pete,
I haven't seen that yet. Pretty cool. As I stated above, I'm more concerned for any soldiers that he may lead into combat. I don't mind being demoted to a Senior NCO. I know quite a few good ones.
I haven't seen that yet. Pretty cool. As I stated above, I'm more concerned for any soldiers that he may lead into combat. I don't mind being demoted to a Senior NCO. I know quite a few good ones.
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