Hello Again-

Has anyone seen the workmanship of the new (somewhat new) Verlinden T-72 turret? If so is it indeed accurate or should I drop the dough and pick up the turret conversion from Blast Models or even Mini Arm?

Thanks in advance

Kurt

Hiya Gary,

We have been having LOOONNNGG discussions with the Eastern European Bretheren about the T-72 over on Tanknet. Here is the actual deal from them:

T-72
T-72M
T-72A
T-72AM
T-72B
T-72BM
T-72B(M)
(These are not all the designators)

All of them are legitimate T-72 variants, based on turret or hull configuration. All of them supposedly are in Russian Army service, although I have not seen actual photo's of some of them.

The M usually stands for Modern, as in a modernized version of a earlier variant. The T-72M is a Modernized design of the T-72 etc... The T-72B(M) is a new designation to set it apart from the T-72BM...it is a update of the T-72B but does not go in the same direction as the T-72BM, which became the T-90. Confused yet? I am too...

And the T-72M with the 30mm welded glacis plate is actually from russian construction...they were made for export and the buyer backed out so the Russian Army took them...just like the T-90S ordered by Iran that were never delivered so they are currently in Russian Army stocks.

Anyhow, as Gary said, the turret you want is going to depend on what you want to model. The new verlinden turret, as stated, has a few minor issues, but it is also a fair amount cheaper than Model Point, Miniarm, or Blast.

Best bet is to match hull features with turret features...no armour to no armour, resin applique to resin applique, and ERA to ERA.

Wow! Sifting through all that seems harder than building the actual model!! :-)

Much thanks to the both of you for the very insightful information. It DID indeed help to clear up the confusion

Happy Modelling!!

Kurt

Hey Gary,

(First off, and I want to say this early on, I am NOT trying to be a know-it-all. These kind of discussions about russian tanks can lead to those sort of conclusions, and I DO NOT want to be seen as a instigator. I just love these topics and do as much research as I can...man, I gotta learn Russian.) Yeah, I know the info you are saying. It just happens to turn out that it may be out of date already and that things in the defense manufacturing business over in the former Soviet Union were more "interesting" than previously thought. Rather than confuse other people too much while we are talking about this, I was going to point people to three sites that have the most current and accurate information I can find right now:

Vasiliy Fofanov's Tank page

Tanknet History Of Soviet Tanks thread - WARNING, this is 36 pages long currently, but very comprehensive.

"Harkonen's tank page - VERY definative, but in russian and SLOOOOOOW! Well worth the wait though.

I hope that helps to completely overwhelm you in your desire to add a simple T-72 to your model stall. :-)

Oh, another link that has a lot of T-72 info

and another...

More T-72 madness...

Hi,

does anybody have some info for me about the Miniarm sets? They have got this T-72B conversion set B35030 but it is not clear to me what's in that set. Is it a turret and ERA and the hull conversion and an aluminium barrel in one set? The pics show all, but th text on the site tells only about hull conversion parts and some ERA bricks. Or should I also get B35029?

cheers,

Matthijs

Hey Gary, I didn't necessarily think you were even thinking I am a know it all, I wanted to state it for all the lurkers who go through this stuff. My time at the computer tends to be limited, so at times i can come across as too brief, as I am sure we all can. I just wanted to put in a disclaimer!

I am glad to hear that the Model Point stuff is worth the $$$. I am looking to invest in some of their resin products this spring/summer. Who do you get your stuff through Gary?

You can buy the Blast turret. It is OK for a non-Russian tank. It would be a t-72M1 as the Tamiya hull.

If you want to make a t-72M (which if Soviet made would be called t-72A) then you have to delete the extra armour from the fron of Tamiya´s hull. Turret will be good enough with the one of the kit.

The main problem in Tamiya´s kit is the mix of features from the t-72M and M1 versions. M1 was upgraded with hull plate and extra layers in the turret.


My only doubt is to know what is a Dolly Parton...?

Is Dolly Parton the same as a t-72M/A

If so, then a Super Dolly Parton would be a t-72M1/B ?


Igor from Miniarm explained it to me in a mail but I have never been able to fully dominate the subject.

A t-72Bm would be a t-72B being able of launching guided-rockets.

A t-90 would be the same but with t-80U firing optics and a new marketing name.

Miniarm will be launching a t-90 conversion kit soon, but don´t know much about it, only it will have a marvelous Shtora system!


Good luck with the dark side of Armour

Gary and Jacques, man at one time I thought I had all this T-72 stuff figured out, now I'm not so sure. If one or both of you guys don't mind (or anyone else for that matter) I have a question. I have the Tamiya kit and the JS Models resin turret. What particular model T-72 would it represent and what countries would have used it? I realize the list of countries could be long so if you know of maybe the "main" users I would appreciate any help.

Best,
Mike

Thanks Gary, I appreciate it.

Mike

Let me throw a monkey-wrench in the mix - what kind of T-72's were used in the Chechyna conflict?

Actually, for that matter, what kind of tanks in general did the Soviets use there?

Thanks,

Felix

Ah Ha! Chechnya! What a marvelous subject, especially the first war. The "nice" thing about that war is the amount and type of equipment used. Basically, anything the Russian Army had in Depot close to the Chechnyan area was commandered to go in, really. It wasn't as piece-meal as that sounds, but there were 2-3 T-64B's that made it there, one of which was "captured' an used in a VERY short T-tank vs. T-tank engagement. I believe it disabled another T-64 before a T-80BV knocked it out. I have seen pictures of the T-64's, one burned out, and that is the story that goes with it.

So yes, T-72's have been there and a fair number of derivatives. The -M1 as represented by Tamiya was not though. There are also photos of T-72C's, (Iran ordered T-72B equivalents with K5 ERA that were never delivered so the Russian Army bought them) supposedly in Chechnya. And the TOS-1 T-72 Derivative has seen extensive use there (MLRS vehicle).

Maybe the easiest way to deal with this is to tell you what you can build with the kits out there:

DML T-72G/M This is the best OOB plastic T-72 for its version. While it still has some proportion problems and lack of detail (and some build issues) it will look like what it is supposed to, even the turret. This would mainly represent a Warsaw Pact T-72, but there were some in Russian Army service.

DML T-72 W/ERA This is supposed to be a T-72BV. There are some issues with the turret size and hull dimension issues. It would represent a vehicle in Russian Army Service, but the kit itself comes off kinda toy-like.

DML T-72M2 This is a T-72B, not really a -M2. It has issues.

DML/Kirin T-72 "Lion of babylon" - Iraqi conversion. Originally desired because it had both the 6 and 8 "spoke" T-72 roadwheels, but now the DML T-72M2 has them as standard. It makes into a decent Iraqi version, with some of the same DML issues.

Tamiya T-72M1 This is what it says it is, a export version of the T-72A early. The turret has problems and needs to be replaced. There are many aftermarket turrets (too many to list) to make it into almost any T-72 you want (well, within reason) as the hull is very good. Even the Hobbycraft/Trumpeter clone of this kit has a decent lower hull (some motorization issues). Miniarm and SP Designs offer new front glacis plates so that you do not have to grind off the extra armour. This is your best starting point for a T-72. The only other problem with this kit is the engine deck...there are differences in the details depending on which version and from which country. Research will be needed to figure out what is needed.

Hi Everybody

First I want ot thanx Gary and Jacques....and the others.....I have learned a lot in this thread....

You have answer almost all my doubts about the t-72 family...just one missing....Is this Tank the Super Dolly Parton??





If it's so.....if I want to model that tank ......I will need a Tamiya's Hull + The Miniarm Turrent for the T-72B without the bricks???

Best Regards

ERick

I have heard rumors that Miniarm came out with a T-72B turret and front Glacis, but I have not seen the actual kit anywhere.

SP Designs does a correct T-72A/B front glacis add on without the ERA. For the turret...Miniarm without the ERA would probably be the most accurate...but not having seen the Miniarm turret firsthand, I cannot confirm it.

You know, for fun, you may just want to buy the DML T-72M2, get a Eduard T-72 metal barrel and the Eduard PE set for the DML kit and just build from that. It may not come out as the most accurate, but you could have a lot of fun with it while waiting for a proper T-72B turret to come out.

A thought anyhow. :-)

Tthat's an interesting option too,Jaques... besides for me it's much easier to get a DML/ZVEZDA/REvELL kit and the Eduard barrel, than the Miniarm Turret, wich by the way I guess will be far more expensive.....

Anyway I will keep my options in mind....Thank you again guys, for such useful information....for the people how want to model the t-72

Regards

Erick