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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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m4 105 - m4a3 105
milojko
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: July 24, 2002
KitMaker: 143 posts
Armorama: 124 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 11:06 PM UTC
Dragons latest release of the m4a3 105 gives marking for use in the pacific theatre, is this correct or is it more likely the m4 105, does anyone know of either of their use in europe, many references i have checked indicate the m4 105 as the dominant one with the british and commonwealth forces
exer
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Dublin, Ireland
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
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Posted: Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 11:10 PM UTC
The M4A3 105mm definitely saw action in NWE in 1945 IIRC there are a couple of photos in Sherman at war (2) by Steve Zaloga.
Others will have more info -c'mon Roy Chow where are you?
ericadeane
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 01:31 AM UTC
:-) You got me Pat! LOL

Pat's right about both being used in NWE. I've only seen M4 (105)s in UK or Commonwealth service in wartime photos.

I don't have my references about the PTO in front of me so I can't comment.
GeraldOwens
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Florida, United States
Joined: March 30, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 05:54 AM UTC
The Commonwealth forces did not use the Ford-engined variant at all. Any 105mm vehicle should be an M4.
ALBOWIE
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: February 28, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 10:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The Commonwealth forces did not use the Ford-engined variant at all. Any 105mm vehicle should be an M4.



No, any Commonwealth 105 armed Sherman should be an M4 (mainly VVSS but a few with HVSS at wars end in Polish use)but the US used a substantial amount of M4A3 105mm variants with both VVSS and HVSS Suspension.
The PTO markings are for a vehicle which was a 105 M4 HVSS. Pics of this vehicle can be seen in Concord 7004 Tank Battles of the Pacific War 41-5. Steve Zaloga ID's this as an M4 105 of 713th Tank Bn on page 66. The stowage across the full deck indicates this to be an M4.
Not the first time DML used well known markings on the wrong vehicle. The 72nd scale M4A4 has markings for an extremely well known British M4A2 (Baaclava an RHQ sherman from 13/18th Hussars) on the boxart no less. I beliueve but cannot confirm that the french marking option in the same kit should also be an M4A2. The Okinawa example should also have t66 track.
Cheers
Al
Greg
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Oregon, United States
Joined: April 12, 2002
KitMaker: 455 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:04 AM UTC
The M4 (105) seems to be most common in the PTO for some reason. I doubt that supply was an issue; other M4A3 variants served out there too. About half of the howitzer tanks built had HVSS, and the later ones of that series had T80 tracks. That combination would be more likely in the PTO than the earlier T66 track. With a VVSS tank, lots of choices: T48, T54E1, T49. As noted above, the CW forces ONLY used air-cooled M4 variants. The "Sheman IV", or M4A3, only came to England in the number of 7 vehicles, all for test and evaluation purposes. HTH,
Greg
ericadeane
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Michigan, United States
Joined: October 28, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:08 AM UTC
I recall S Zaloga mentioning that the seven M4A3s sent to the UK were all 75mm gun tanks.
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