Hi guys,
I've always been fascinated by turret gun emplacements, in particular the pantherturn. I built the Mig resin/plaster kit some time ago Mig Pantherturn but have decided recently to give it a new lease of life by turning it into a base for a diorama of a Sherman i'm building, which will involve giving it a new repaint and adding a few details.
However, i'm a bit short of reference material and don't have any cash to buy books unfortunately. Therefore i'm appealing to you guys to help me out with some reference pics or sources of information.
To make the dio interesting I want the turret to have come from an actual tank that has been knocked out and the turret re-used, so that I can give it camouflage and decals.
Also as its going to be in a dio with an M4A3 Sherman I imagine it'll have to be in the 'seigfreid' line for historical accuracy.
As always, any help much appreciated,
Cheers,
James
Hosted by Darren Baker
Pantherturn pics and info please!
Jamesite
Joined: December 05, 2006
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 03:57 PM UTC
H_Ackermans
Joined: July 11, 2006
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 04:08 PM UTC
You need Panzer Tracts 21-2, it deals with Pantherturm I and II on steel, concrete and wooden bases.
Savage
Joined: June 04, 2003
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 04:20 PM UTC
Hi James, info on the Pantherturm & other fixed turret installations has been asked for before, see:
http://armorama.co.uk/forums/88067&page=1
From that thread:
"IIRC there were three variants of the Pantherturm, although they were known as Pantherturm I & II. Version I had either a concrete casement or a steel version/box. Version II (quick installation or Schnelleinbau) had a wooden bunker. Some resources refer to them as I, II and III- other sources as just I and II. Panzer Tracts No 21-2 seems to be the best reference on the Pantherturm.
Mig Productions do the Pantherturm I and III. The I is just the turret and bunker/casement, while the III is a mini diorama of a street in Berlin. Just Plane Stuff do a Pantherturm I- reviewed at Perth Military Modelling.
Here's a link to an actual Pantherturm in Poland. I also read somewhere that Panthers without running gear were dug in as bunkers. On the Axis History Forum there is a thread with some good photos of Pantherturms and also what looks like these Panther 'bunkers'.
Hope this helps.
EDIT: Almost forgot Odkrywca-online has these photos:"
Do a search for Pantherturm on Google & on Kitmaker for more info.
HTH
http://armorama.co.uk/forums/88067&page=1
From that thread:
"IIRC there were three variants of the Pantherturm, although they were known as Pantherturm I & II. Version I had either a concrete casement or a steel version/box. Version II (quick installation or Schnelleinbau) had a wooden bunker. Some resources refer to them as I, II and III- other sources as just I and II. Panzer Tracts No 21-2 seems to be the best reference on the Pantherturm.
Mig Productions do the Pantherturm I and III. The I is just the turret and bunker/casement, while the III is a mini diorama of a street in Berlin. Just Plane Stuff do a Pantherturm I- reviewed at Perth Military Modelling.
Here's a link to an actual Pantherturm in Poland. I also read somewhere that Panthers without running gear were dug in as bunkers. On the Axis History Forum there is a thread with some good photos of Pantherturms and also what looks like these Panther 'bunkers'.
Hope this helps.
EDIT: Almost forgot Odkrywca-online has these photos:"
Do a search for Pantherturm on Google & on Kitmaker for more info.
HTH
Jamesite
Joined: December 05, 2006
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 04:55 PM UTC
Thanks Eric,
A wealth of info there and more pics than I need! Iv'e also found that searching correctly for Pantherturm rather than Pantherturn helps as far as info is concerned! easy mistake to make (I tell myself!)
Cheers,
James
A wealth of info there and more pics than I need! Iv'e also found that searching correctly for Pantherturm rather than Pantherturn helps as far as info is concerned! easy mistake to make (I tell myself!)
Cheers,
James
bulivyf
Vendor
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:14 PM UTC
shonen_red
Joined: February 20, 2003
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:19 PM UTC
I remember seeing in one of my books a Pantherturn with the top armor removed in the streets of Berlin. You may go that extra mile and leave the interior exposed.
Jamesite
Joined: December 05, 2006
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:28 PM UTC
Thanks Miloslav, thats almost exactly the look i'm going for with mine!
Ralph, a very nice idea, unfortunately the turret from the Mig kit is cast resin and so has a solid interior that won't look so good! Nice thought though!
Reading through some info it appears that the turret included in the Mig kit (see the link in my first post) is of a turret type specifically for using as a pantherturm and so has no cupola etc. Does this mean i'm going to be historically innacurate if I show mine as being from a damaged tank? I could always add a cupola and some details to make it more accurate I suppose.
Any ideas? Or does anyone have a shortlist of the differences between the pantherturm turret and a panther tank turret (Obviously it will vary depending on the tank model)?
Cheers,
James
Ralph, a very nice idea, unfortunately the turret from the Mig kit is cast resin and so has a solid interior that won't look so good! Nice thought though!
Reading through some info it appears that the turret included in the Mig kit (see the link in my first post) is of a turret type specifically for using as a pantherturm and so has no cupola etc. Does this mean i'm going to be historically innacurate if I show mine as being from a damaged tank? I could always add a cupola and some details to make it more accurate I suppose.
Any ideas? Or does anyone have a shortlist of the differences between the pantherturm turret and a panther tank turret (Obviously it will vary depending on the tank model)?
Cheers,
James
DT61
Joined: September 18, 2005
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:41 PM UTC
Here is my interpetation of a Pantherturm:
shonen_red
Joined: February 20, 2003
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks Miloslav, thats almost exactly the look i'm going for with mine!
Ralph, a very nice idea, unfortunately the turret from the Mig kit is cast resin and so has a solid interior that won't look so good! Nice thought though!
Reading through some info it appears that the turret included in the Mig kit (see the link in my first post) is of a turret type specifically for using as a pantherturm and so has no cupola etc. Does this mean i'm going to be historically innacurate if I show mine as being from a damaged tank? I could always add a cupola and some details to make it more accurate I suppose.
Any ideas? Or does anyone have a shortlist of the differences between the pantherturm turret and a panther tank turret (Obviously it will vary depending on the tank model)?
Cheers,
James
Not sure, but since it's a fixed AT gun, it needs a quick means of escape. Adding cupolas could hinder the gunner's ability to quickly escape his vehicle. Like I had mentioned in my prev post, the Pantherturn in Berlin has no top armor - for easy get in and out of the gun.
H_Ackermans
Joined: July 11, 2006
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 09:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Not sure, but since it's a fixed AT gun, it needs a quick means of escape. Adding cupolas could hinder the gunner's ability to quickly escape his vehicle. Like I had mentioned in my prev post, the Pantherturn in Berlin has no top armor - for easy get in and out of the gun.
There's more to a Pantherturm than the turret alone.
Especially the concrete stands were in effect bunkers with Panther-turrets (Also Pz IV turrets have been used).
The cupola's were there for targetting and not as the prime means of entering and exiting.
See here:
You see that the rear hatch is there, but that is an awkward way out.
On the right is a part of the bunker visible.
Joker
Joined: May 28, 2004
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 09:45 PM UTC
I never knew Pz IV turrets were used, only Panthers... Now I got a spare turret around here somewhere...thanks for the info.
Regards
Peter
Regards
Peter
Jamesite
Joined: December 05, 2006
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 10:08 PM UTC
Id never heard of the Pz IV being used either though I imagine they were as the pz III turrets were used extensively in the atlantic wall.
James
James
H_Ackermans
Joined: July 11, 2006
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 11:01 PM UTC
Myeah, that's whay you get from flicking over a page too fast.
Panzer Tracts 21-1 deals about Staende mit Pz.Kpfw.Tuermen (Panzer Turrets on Concrete and Wood Stands) Pz.Kpfw.-Turm I to F.Pz.D.T.4814.
I saw a 4... my bad...
Panzer Tracts 21-1 deals about Staende mit Pz.Kpfw.Tuermen (Panzer Turrets on Concrete and Wood Stands) Pz.Kpfw.-Turm I to F.Pz.D.T.4814.
I saw a 4... my bad...
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 11:10 PM UTC
Maybe this thread on another forum would be worth a look ....(reading Czeck would be useful 
)
http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/p/59008#59008
HTH
Frenchy
)http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/p/59008#59008
HTH
Frenchy
Jamesite
Joined: December 05, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 03:05 PM UTC
Thanks Frenchy,
Just when I thought i'd found all the good pics you find me more! Some great ones in there thanks mate! Particularly interesting is this one:
Is this supposed to be a moveable pantherturm (if so its a very bad tank!) or is this being moved by the allies upon capture for inspection?
Thanks again,
James
Just when I thought i'd found all the good pics you find me more! Some great ones in there thanks mate! Particularly interesting is this one:
Is this supposed to be a moveable pantherturm (if so its a very bad tank!) or is this being moved by the allies upon capture for inspection?
Thanks again,
James
Jamesite
Joined: December 05, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 08:19 PM UTC
How about this then!:
Quite a formitable position! These appear to have been taken from knocked out Tigers, as the one in the foreground still has spare track links bolted to the turret. Havn't heard of Tigers being used before either! It seems that the Germans probably made use of any spare turrets in this way.
James
Quite a formitable position! These appear to have been taken from knocked out Tigers, as the one in the foreground still has spare track links bolted to the turret. Havn't heard of Tigers being used before either! It seems that the Germans probably made use of any spare turrets in this way.
James
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 03:12 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Is this supposed to be a moveable pantherturm (if so its a very bad tank!) or is this being moved by the allies upon capture for inspection?
All I can say is that the trailer looks like one on a picture I have showing a german Praga T9 tracked tractor towing a steel pillbox. As a pantherturm is not motorized, it needs to be carried on a trailer to its planed site...
Frenchy
Hut
Joined: July 14, 2003
KitMaker: 285 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
How about this then!:
Quite a formitable position! These appear to have been taken from knocked out Tigers, as the one in the foreground still has spare track links bolted to the turret. Havn't heard of Tigers being used before either! It seems that the Germans probably made use of any spare turrets in this way.
James
This picture can be found on http://www.alanhamby.com/gallery2.html
And this is actualy used for gunnery practice and not for defence. These were probably new turrets, not from knocked out tigers.
This photo inspired me to:
Cheers,
Pascal
Jamesite
Joined: December 05, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 03:18 PM UTC
Nice little dio Pascal,
I saw the pic in a slideshow on youtube and so was unaware of its origin. Still I wouldn't want to be in front of them while they're practising!
James
I saw the pic in a slideshow on youtube and so was unaware of its origin. Still I wouldn't want to be in front of them while they're practising!
James
wedgetail
Joined: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 04:11 PM UTC
James
Waldemar Trojca's Pzkpfw V Panther Vol 6 has several pages of photographs, scale drawings, and colour illustrations of all three types of Pantherturm
Rob
Waldemar Trojca's Pzkpfw V Panther Vol 6 has several pages of photographs, scale drawings, and colour illustrations of all three types of Pantherturm
Rob
Hut
Joined: July 14, 2003
KitMaker: 285 posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 11:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Nice little dio Pascal,
I saw the pic in a slideshow on youtube and so was unaware of its origin. Still I wouldn't want to be in front of them while they're practising!
James
Thanks James,
You're right it would be an unpleasant experience standing in front of them.
I was following this thread because I too like these gun emplacements and I've been wanting to build a panther turm myself. (Using revells panther A/D 1/72 model.)
But how about this odd thing: http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/dio/panzernest_szaloga.html
Do you know the osprey fortress books? They also have info on fortifications and gun emplacements. http://www.ospreypublishing.com/
Cheers,
Pascal
Jamesite
Joined: December 05, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 02:46 PM UTC
Cheers Pascal,
Thats an interesting one! I imagine there were a lot of strange fortifications like this throughout the seigfreid line, i've certainly seen a few similar things myself on Jersey which was a formidable part of the Atlantic wall. The Osprey books are an excellent resource and I have some covering other topics. Unfortunately my cash flow is pretty tight at the minute, meaning I can't really afford to splash out on some books and why i'm getting you guys to find me information!
Thanks again,
James
Thats an interesting one! I imagine there were a lot of strange fortifications like this throughout the seigfreid line, i've certainly seen a few similar things myself on Jersey which was a formidable part of the Atlantic wall. The Osprey books are an excellent resource and I have some covering other topics. Unfortunately my cash flow is pretty tight at the minute, meaning I can't really afford to splash out on some books and why i'm getting you guys to find me information!
Thanks again,
James
panzerfux
Joined: February 04, 2011
KitMaker: 2 posts
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Posted: Friday, February 04, 2011 - 09:43 AM UTC
For a long time I was just reading and investigate at Armorama for my store and my own models. In this case I will introduce myself and show you the Pantherturm Bunker Stellung which is scales H0. It uses the Trident Panther turret and a concrete base made of ceramics. Hatches can be open or close built.
Cheers
Daniel http://www.panzerfux.de
Cheers
Daniel http://www.panzerfux.de
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