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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Sherman camo?
flakgunner
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2007 - 04:38 PM UTC
hey,
over the weekend , AMC ran movies ,associated with the oscars,the ran John Wayne's "Sands of Iwo Jima",towards the end of the movie,there was actual footage clips show in the movie,of Sherman's on the move,thier was a column of Sherman along a ridge,one caught my eye,it clearly showed a three color pattern,and appeared to be hardedged.Iam presuming the orginal O.D.,then a much darker color,Dk. green or Black? then a very light color? The Shermans had VVSS suspension,iam thinking M4's?or A3's?

Joe
Jamesite
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2007 - 04:52 PM UTC
Hey Joe,
I'm afraid I can't be too much help as my knowledge of the pacific theatre is limited, but I am interested in the post.
I know a 3 or 4 colour camouflage was used on the Buffalo amphibious vehicles by the marines but have no pics to back this up.

:[]-- However, I am interested in wether any camo schemes were used on US shermans in the ETO and if anyone has pics of these?

Don't mean to hijack your thread or anything Joe it just got me thinking!

James
trahe
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2007 - 05:03 PM UTC
Joe,

Have you seen this?

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/message/1172526955/USMC+Sherman+found+on+Iwo+Jima%21%21
Drader
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2007 - 05:12 PM UTC
Spotting the huge differences between archive footage and the shots with John Wayne is one of the pleasures of the Sands of Iwo Jima. Specially the colour of the sand

The only source of colour photos of Marine Shermans on the net that comes to mind is Hardcorps Models reference page -

Hardcorps

There's also some good coverage of Iwo Jima DUKWs for anyone contemplating the latest version of the Italeri kit.

David
Drader
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2007 - 05:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey Joe,
I'm afraid I can't be too much help as my knowledge of the pacific theatre is limited, but I am interested in the post.
I know a 3 or 4 colour camouflage was used on the Buffalo amphibious vehicles by the marines but have no pics to back this up.

:[]-- However, I am interested in wether any camo schemes were used on US shermans in the ETO and if anyone has pics of these?

Don't mean to hijack your thread or anything Joe it just got me thinking!

James


If you can find them, Steve Zaloga's books for Concord are a great source of Sherman camouflage.

David
Jamesite
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2007 - 05:18 PM UTC
Was just about to post that link too Thomas!

Thanks for the tip on the books David does this mean they did use the camo schemes?, i'm a bit short of cash for buying books though, any pics/sites on the web that are any good?

Cheers,

James
hogarth
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2007 - 05:20 PM UTC
I can't point to any pics on the web for you. But I have the Zaloga book, plus a few others.

4th TB tended to be two tone, OD and sand

5th TB tended to be 3 tone, OD, Sand, and Earth Red.

I believe it was 4th TB that used the "cages" over the hatches, and the 5th used the penny nails.

HTH
Rob
Drader
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2007 - 05:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Was just about to post that link too Thomas!

Thanks for the tip on the books David does this mean they did use the camo schemes?, i'm a bit short of cash for buying books though, any pics/sites on the web that are any good?

Cheers,

James


Definitely - the commonest is the black stripes sported by tanks of the 2nd Armored Division and others. There is also a scheme involving pale green (IIRC) painted on tanks which had Sommerfield matting attached too.

As for pics on the net, not sure.

David
hogarth
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2007 - 08:22 PM UTC
As the original question was about the tanks on Iwo, that's what I posted about above.

On the other side of the world, you see all sorts of camo schemes as well. In Sicily, many US tanks were painted OD with Earth Yellow in patches/stripes. Same in Italy, along with some in OD/Black or OD/Earth Brown. In Europe, you see mostly OD/Black, sometimes OD/Black/Light Green, and a few even with OD/Black/Lt. Green/Brown.

The Concord books are handy for all of these.

I never understand when those who ONLY build German armor complain that Allied armor is boring b/c it's all OD! If you throw in some of the British schemes in N.Africa and Italy, the USA schemes I mentioned above, plus some Pacific projects, there are plenty of interesting schemes to paint.

Rob
flakgunner
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2007 - 08:57 PM UTC
hey,
i was hoping someone else was alittle more familiar with the movie,and new of the scene iam asking about.ive tried searching the web for info on the scene/footage,and and coming up empty,and thiers not much info on camo patterns of the USMC shermans,just about all of my books and web sites show U.S. afv's in O.D.,with afew with black camo,otherwise lots of foilage.I know it's difficult to tell from b/w photos/footage,but i was hoping for alittle better detailed info on "that" Sherman,i tried to take a digital photo of it off the TV,but that didnt work out to good.I also mentioned i thought it could be a M4 or A3,but didnt the USMC use alot of A2's?

Joe
hogarth
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2007 - 09:08 PM UTC
Haven't seen the movie in a while. I think they show "Comet" or "Coed" or one of the other well-photographed Shermans. These were from the 4th Marine Tank Battalion and apparently sported OD with bands of a sand-yellow cover over them, cages on hatches, spare track on front and around turret, and wood side planking with sandbags on upper hull.

I think the flamthrower ones were A2s (47 degree hull), all the others were A3s.

Rob
Drader
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2007 - 09:28 PM UTC
Ages since I saw the film, as now it 's only on during the day while I'm out. IIRC the USMC Shermans on Iwo Jima were mostly M4A3s with one battalion of M4A2s with the 60degree front. All I remember about the flamethrower tanks in the film is that they were HVSS and obviously not the one in the archive footage.

It's unlikely to have been Co-ed as the pic here shows a monotone scheme

Colour Shermans

So perhaps a look for a cheap DVD of the film for the weekend?

David
flakgunner
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2007 - 10:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Ages since I saw the film, as now it 's only on during the day while I'm out. IIRC the USMC Shermans on Iwo Jima were mostly M4A3s with one battalion of M4A2s with the 60degree front. All I remember about the flamethrower tanks in the film is that they were HVSS and obviously not the one in the archive footage.

It's unlikely to have been Co-ed as the pic here shows a monotone scheme

Colour Shermans

So perhaps a look for a cheap DVD of the film for the weekend?

David


hey,
we still have a decent VHS player ,so i recorded the movie,so this will help me in placing the camo pattern.but still dont help me , with the three colors used,I tried to take a digital photo hoping to download it onto the computer ,then add it here,but the quaility was horrible.one thing with it being film footage is theres no guarantee thats it came from Iwo Jima.unless someone else knows otherwise,i just wanted to dupilcate that tank as close as possible. Joe
INDIA11A
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 01:00 AM UTC
May not be of much help but here is one I built a while ago. Could not duplicate the hatch cages or the nails welded around the vehicle.




Doug
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 04:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

So perhaps a look for a cheap DVD of the film for the weekend?

David


Hey Joe,

If you got the DVD and played it on your PC you should be able to pause it, do a print screen and yet a decent pic of the tank that way. Bit of a grey area as far as copyright is concerned!

jAMES
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