Hi all

I recently posted this request for information over on Arnhembattle.com (I contacted the Hartenstein also) but so far haven't received any replies, but then again not everyone is as helpful as us!

Which brings me nicely to my question: I'm planning on making a number of dioramas (1:35) depicting the Arnhem battle and wanted to start off with something small like the Hartenstein Hotel (!). I'm wanting to show the front of the building with the foxholes, wounded etc in the grounds. Now, my problem is reference material, I have many books, a small number of DVDs and of course the internet at my disposal but I can't seem to find any decent pics or reference of the Hotel and grounds to accurately depict the scene.

Therefore, can any of you recommend any books, DVDs or other reference material that has plans or lots of photos? Do any of you have photos that you've taken on visits that could help?

Any help or advise is greatly appreciated.

I really want to get this right and not just build a white building the words 'Hotel' above the door! If I can't get hold of any reference material I'm thinking of taking a trip over there later this year (not September of course, far too busy!) with camera so if anyone else is interested we could make it a group trip! Let me know.

Many thanks

Matt Yates

My Late father was based around the Hartenstein during the battle for arnhem and described it as being like an attotment after six weeks of heavy rain, where he got that description from i don't know as he never did any gardening in his life.

there was an 'after the battle' publication that i remember had a few shots of the hotel grounds and i remember him reading it and pointing out various places where units were situated.

Ola Matt

I hope I can be of some use to you. We have had a Market garden Campaign on the Dutch section some years ago and had some fieldtrips to Oosterbeek, the museum and Arnhem. I took some pics there sadly I don't have much pics online of the Hotel itself... On Armorama I have only three and a lot of pictures that show the direct surroundings of the Hartenstein Hotel.


And a view from the parkside of Hotel Hartenstein... Which you stand at the back of the hotel.


Keep in mind that they did some major restaurations to the building and that the original hotel did look different. Some research is definately needed to get that right.

The link that is shown below takes you to a gallery folder of mine that shows the region from the Hotel to the Rijn river where a lot of the Brits managed to escape. It also shows what is left of the Tafelberg where Feldmarschall Model had his headquarters and the house of Kate Ter Horst,
Hotel Hartenstein Surroundings

Look at this dio by Guy de Lillo over on ML his version is probably the most accurate I have seen although it is in 1;72. This matches up quite well with the pictures I have seen.
Operation Market Garden diorama by Guy delillo

Another guy you should contact is Danny Wennekes (eagle) I know he was planning on doing some interior things and he did start on the cellar of the Hotel. he also has a huge collection of books and ref material.

I hope you can do something with this piece of Dutch History. It is an interesting piece of the war you are planning to do.

With friendly greetz

Robert Blokker

Ted and Robert

Thank you so much for your prompt replies (incredibly fast!).

All and any information is welcome. I visited Arnhem 20 years ago (!) and it is still a subject which is very important to me which is why I've decided to do these dioramas. There will be several pieces created and although I'm not decided on all of them yet (none will include the full bridge, maybe a portion of it) I do know that the Hartenstein will be one, Kate ter Horst' house (excellent pic by the way Robert) and Oosterbeek church, I haven't decided on any others but would very much like to show the aftermath of Gräbner’s attack!

I really need these pieces to be as accurate as possible (I ref 'theirs is the glory' over 'a bridge too far') for myself more than anything but also because, as Robert points out, this is a very important piece of Dutch history as well as British, Canadian, Polish and American, I don't just want to show a road and call it Arnhem!

Thanks again and keep it coming!

Matt

Hi Matt, have you tried to superb After Battle 2 book coverage of Market Garden.

regards Andy

Robert - RMG Campaign, great fun.

What ever happened to Danny's interior basement shadow box?

Hi Andy

Yes, I have both volumes and they are absolutely superp! However my problem is that there wasn't actually that much photography to come out of Arnhem, well not the kind I'm after - I need to see hinges, flooring, curtains, furniture and screw heads! LOL

I think I need to get over there...

Matt

Friends,

this is my cup of tea.... I'll look into the reference material later this week for ya' Matt. I think my collection will provide some good material for you.

About my cellar diorama....well Eagle got divorced and had to leave some stuff behind on his withdrawel operation .... next weekend I'm going on a rescue mission in my old house and I hope to find some remains of my former projects.... keep your fingers crossed...I'll keep you posted on what I'm going to find

I'll get back to you Matt with reference material !

Danny

You're a top bloke! I've been through a couple (yep, 2!) divorces myself so I can sympathise. Although I actually did manage to get hold of a box of books which had been left in the attic of Ex:2 for three years!

I'm very serious about this project and I'll try not to let you down, although I'm gonna be moving house in a month or so, so will have to break off until settled. I'll start a thread showing work in progress.

Cheers again

Matt

Danny nice to see you.
I hope your rescue op. goes well. Do some good recon and try and go in when the unfriendlies aren't around

not sure if you're still looking for info Matt? But my Grandfather fought here and was actually located in a field just opposite the Church, he was a gun layer on a 75mm Howitzer. Ive been back there and visited this field several times and he ahs actually been able to locate the position where he says his gun was.

Whether or not its any help or interest to you or not? But we have an aerial recon photogrpah of the area surounding the church, showing the locations of were the Germans broke through and actually surrounded their position. If you like I can probabaly take a photograph of this picture and send it to you along with any other details about the area. I do plan on doing a small diorama of his gun position at some point. Let me know if theres any details you want to know and I can ask him.

Rob, I am still looking! And your info would be greatly appreciated, very much indeed!

I plan on doing the Church after I've completed the Hartenstein so anything you can send me would be great! If you wanted me to include your grandfathers postition then that would be equally good (not wanting to step on your toes if you're wanting to do the same yourself of course).

I can't believe the positive response I've received to this thread, it goes to show how captivating this particular subject still is.

Thanks again Rob

Matt

@Matt,

Matt,

I haven't forgotten you... it takes me a bit more time than expected to recover the info...ya know...divorce...stuff scattered around several places... but I'm working for you.

@Rob,

Rob,

I would love to have all the info you can provide about the guns around the church... I've had a diorama idea about the actions around the church, but had to put it aside because of the lack of info.... you could help me starting this again ! I'm also interested in the stories behind the actions, so if your granddad ever put his thoughts and memories to paper, please think about me !

Danny- Id be happy to help you out with anything whatsoever related to this. Like I said in my original post, my Grandad does have an aerial photograph of the area surrounding the church taken at the time, I can get a copy of this. I believe it marks and area where a group of Stug assualt guns broke through and begun to surround his position. Whether or not this is entirely accurate I can say, just going by his word. I will try and get him to write down some details of the action there. His was made a POW and taken to Germany to work in a mine, he has written down a lot about that but as yet I dont believe we have anything about his actual combat experiences. He has told us many little stories and things, we just need to get them in paper. He mentioned once, when the Germans broke through and they knew capture was inevitable they actually buried their supply of grenades in the gun pit.

But yes, I shall try and see if I can get some stuff written down. Im also planning a small vignette of his Gun position, ive got one of the old Tamiya 75mm's(pretty rare now)

Danny
I understand only too well! Don't worry, there really is no rush, I don't intend to hurry this build I want to take time over it to get everything right. I'm holding off on the construction of the Hotel until I've got more info and have decided on what I want to show. I very much appreciate your help.

Rob
Have you or your Grandad checked out http://www.pegasusarchive.org/ ? It has many first hand accounts written by Veterans, their sons or grandsons etc. Its a superb source of inspiration and an excellent way to preserve these stories for a wider audience.

PS
I've just got back from visiting an open day at RAF Shawbury where they are constructing a full size replica of a Horsa glider and a WACO glider! They also have a Dakota, built in '43, damaged in Operation Varsity in '45 and flown as a passenger aircraft and freighter until just a few years ago!.

It was great to see that some Veterans had been able to make it and were only too willing to talk to the visitors and living history members who were also on hand to exhibit and talk about their collection of Airborne uniforms and equipment. A pretty long drive for me (and my long suffering girl friend) but well worth it!

PPS
I've also started an SBS of this build and would really appreciate both your opinions if you have the time.

Thanks again

Matt

how did your Hartenstein diorama come out ? also I have photos of the up date museum
dioramas.

We have just completed a Dio for the action very near to the Hartenstien where J D Baskeyfield won his VC in Oosterbeek. Have also visited the area and got photos of the area including the hotel, there are quite a few out there and, i'll see if i candig out some and post them. Check out the dio on the form ref J Baskeyfield this has photos of Oosterbeek near the Hotel. Also check out http://avoncalling.forumotion.com/forum.htm where we have discussed our Dio and some photos on there of the area