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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Iwo Jima Sherman's
Sherman_67
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 08:35 AM UTC
I Just finished watching Flags of our Fathers and then thought about converting a Tamiya 1/48th scale Sherman into one that would be seen on Iwo Jima so I need some pics of Shermans on Iwo Jima



Matt
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 08:42 AM UTC
Matt,
The 1/48 Tamiya kits won't really do you any good as the neither the M4 nor M4A1 were used on Iwo. Your best bet in 1/48 would be to get either a Hobby Boss M4A3 or one of Steve Faxon's resin M4A2 conversions available through Faxon Conversions and use a Tamiya as the base for the conversion.

Chris "toadman" Hughes
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Sherman_67
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 08:45 AM UTC
are there any 1/35th scale Shermans that would help
toadman1
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 09:16 AM UTC
There's several including the old Tamiya M4A3 and Italeri M4A3. You can also use one of the M4A2's(not the Academy one) that are on the market. Both the Tamiya and Italeri kits do need some help. Or, you could also use one of the M4A3(76)VVSS kits with a 75mm turret from someone like Formations as well.

Chris "toadman" Hughes
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jjumbo
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 04:06 PM UTC
Academy's Marine Corps M4A2 is actually a better choice than the any of the Tamiya or Italeri kits.
Problems with the upper hull's rear angles have been corrected(at least in the kit I picked up) and it's certainly as detailed as some of the older Tamiya and Italeri offerings.
The Academy kit has it's nit picks but what M4 kit doesn't and it's certainly a good place to start if you want a Iwo Jima Sherman.
Cheers

jjumbo
hogarth
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 05:27 PM UTC
John,

....except that most of the Shermans used on Iwo were A3, not A2. Both the 4th and 5th Marine Tank Battalions used the A3, and these were the ones with the wood planking, hatch cages or penny nails, etc. I'd think it would be easier to start with an A3 than convert an A2. I'd go with Tamiya or Italeri in 1/35th.

Rob
Greg
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 12:02 AM UTC
I'll second the advice to use on of Dragon's recently tooled A3 VVSS kits. They are much better than the old Tamiya effort. They include LTL T-48 track which was commonly used and the stamped roadwheels now have rear inserts. Note, the stamped idlers still do NOT have backs so I'd steal a set from an Academy kit or get resin ones from Formations. Formations, CMD, and Tank Workshop all make nice high-bustle turrets with the oval loader's hatch. The Italeri turret will work too with some work, and Steve Zaloga's recent Osprey book on modeling US Army 75mm Shermans details the changes needed to the Italeri turret. Of the plastic kit turrets (Italeri, Tamiya, Academy) it is the only one with the correct sized hatch. It's smaller than the one on the T23 76mm turrets. HTH,

Greg
jjumbo
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 04:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

John,

....except that most of the Shermans used on Iwo were A3, not A2. Both the 4th and 5th Marine Tank Battalions used the A3, and these were the ones with the wood planking, hatch cages or penny nails, etc. Rob


Hey Rob,
Yes, if you wanted to cobble together an Iwo Jima Sherman from a myriad of sources, you could go your route.
I was only suggesting that the Academy Marine M4A2 was a good startng point as opposed to the older Tamiya M4A3 and Italeri M4A2/A3 kits.
BTW, every source I can get my hands on either shows or mentions the 3rd, 4th and 5th Marine Tank Battalions used the M4A2 at Iwo Jima.
I know that the M4A3 was also used but the M4A2 was prefered by the Marines(and the USN)for it's use of diesel fuel.
Almost every photo I can find of 5th MTB Shermans like COED, COMET ,Davy Jones and Nightmare II are captioned as M4A2 (W)'s.
All of these tanks are protected, in one way or another, with sandbags, wood planking, concrete, penny nails and corrugated steel ala the Acadmy kit.
I've also found photos of 3rd MTB M4A2's at Iwo Jima with the earlier upper hull with the squared off driver's hoods ala Dragon's Tarawa M4A2.
Just an FYI.
Cheers

jjumbo
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 04:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

John,

....except that most of the Shermans used on Iwo were A3, not A2. Both the 4th and 5th Marine Tank Battalions used the A3, and these were the ones with the wood planking, hatch cages or penny nails, etc. Rob


Hey Rob,
Yes, if you wanted to cobble together an Iwo Jima Sherman from a myriad of sources, you could go your route.
I was only suggesting that the Academy Marine M4A2 was a good startng point as opposed to the older Tamiya M4A3 and Italeri M4A2/A3 kits.
BTW, every source I can get my hands on either shows or mentions the 3rd, 4th and 5th Marine Tank Battalions used the M4A2 at Iwo Jima.
I know that the M4A3 was also used but the M4A2 was prefered by the Marines(and the USN)for it's use of diesel fuel.
Almost every photo I can find of 5th MTB Shermans like COED, COMET ,Davy Jones and Nightmare II are captioned as M4A2 (W)'s.
All of these tanks are protected, in one way or another, with sandbags, wood planking, concrete, penny nails and corrugated steel ala the Acadmy kit.
I've also found photos of 3rd MTB M4A2's at Iwo Jima with the earlier upper hull with the squared off driver's hoods ala Dragon's Tarawa M4A2.
Just an FYI.
Cheers

jjumbo


See this thread on ML:Iwo Shermans for some additional information.

Chris "toadman" Hughes
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hogarth
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 08:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

John,

....except that most of the Shermans used on Iwo were A3, not A2. Both the 4th and 5th Marine Tank Battalions used the A3, and these were the ones with the wood planking, hatch cages or penny nails, etc. Rob


Hey Rob,
Yes, if you wanted to cobble together an Iwo Jima Sherman from a myriad of sources, you could go your route.
I was only suggesting that the Academy Marine M4A2 was a good startng point as opposed to the older Tamiya M4A3 and Italeri M4A2/A3 kits.
BTW, every source I can get my hands on either shows or mentions the 3rd, 4th and 5th Marine Tank Battalions used the M4A2 at Iwo Jima.
I know that the M4A3 was also used but the M4A2 was prefered by the Marines(and the USN)for it's use of diesel fuel.
Almost every photo I can find of 5th MTB Shermans like COED, COMET ,Davy Jones and Nightmare II are captioned as M4A2 (W)'s.
All of these tanks are protected, in one way or another, with sandbags, wood planking, concrete, penny nails and corrugated steel ala the Acadmy kit.
I've also found photos of 3rd MTB M4A2's at Iwo Jima with the earlier upper hull with the squared off driver's hoods ala Dragon's Tarawa M4A2.
Just an FYI.
Cheers

jjumbo


John,

If you are using Zaloga's "Tank Battles of the Pacific War", he is the first to admit that those tanks you mentioned by name are, in fact, A3s.

THE guru on Marine tanks of WW2 is Ed Gilbert, who posts frequently over on ML. Do some searches over there and you might find the info you need.

It's my understanding that the only A2s used by the 4th or 5th Marines on Iwo were flame versions. I think the other TB (6th? 3rd?) used some other A2s, but I don't know if these had the earlier hull (a la the Tarawa M4A2 by Dragon) or the later 47 degree hull as that made by Academy.

Without clear shots of the engine decks, determining the correct version of these tanks is tough with all the wood applique, sandbags, etc. I think Zaloga kind of assumed they were A2s for the reasons you mentioned, but Ed Gilbert went through the records and other sources and found out they were A3s. Also, your captions say M4A2 (w), but in fact there were no M4A2s with 75mm guns with wet ammo stowage, another indication that the captions you are using are incorrect.

Yes, the Tamiya kit isn't quite as detailed as the newer DML versions, and I happen to be a rare big fan of the Italeri kits, but that's me. Oh, and the T48 rubber chevron tracks were not used by the Marines on Iwo. They used the metal chevron type, usually with extended end connectors, as done in the OLDER Tamiya A3. Another reason why that kit is the better starting point.

Rob

P.S. Thanks Chris for posting that link. Like Ed said in his post in that link, knocking down this old myth is gets tiring, and I admit I was too lazy to do a search there to post here.
jjumbo
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 09:43 AM UTC
Chris and Robert,

I stand corrected!!

Cheers

jjumbo
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