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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
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finnish armed forces t-72
pumapower
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: March 29, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 10:58 PM UTC
Hi there could anyone tell me where i can find any pictures of a t-72 in finnish service
Wingtsun
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: July 16, 2006
KitMaker: 295 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 11:04 PM UTC
Try the IPMS Finland web site. They used to have a set of photographs taken by Jarmo Lindgren and Sampo Mikola. These same guys (JS Models) make a resin turret to replace the stock Tamiya turret and a resin "Finnish" stowage turret stowage box. You can buy these items from T:MI Kuivalainen store in Helsinki. He has a web site. I have ordered from Martti's shop before.
barron
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Virginia, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 11:31 PM UTC
There used to be a book on the T-72 by concord that had the pictures that you are looking for.
Scottosaurus
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: February 15, 2006
KitMaker: 83 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 12:00 AM UTC
Hello:

Here are the IPMS Finland photos - they rock!

http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria_referenssit_t-72.html

Really inspiring stuff. I'm going to build 264-100.

Cheers,
Scottosaurus
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: February 15, 2006
KitMaker: 83 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 12:02 AM UTC
I forgot to add that the JS-Models stuff (I've got the turret, turret stowage bin and 125 mm barrel) are also excellent, and highly recommended. I'm jsut waiting for my WWII Productions T-72 tracks and a good set of Finnish decals, then I'm finally off to the races with this project!

Cheers,

Scott
Wingtsun
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: July 16, 2006
KitMaker: 295 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 03:39 AM UTC
Scott

Are you suggesting that someone makes a set of Finnish decals for T-72M1 ? Tamiya supposedly had a sheet of Modern Vehicle markings years ago that contained Finnish T-72 vehicle.
I got a set of left over Finnish markings from the Dragon T-72G/M to use with my kit.
It was suggested to me to use the Finnish aircraft cockades/ roundels sheet printed by Martii Kuivalainen with dry transfer stencils to make up the letters and numbers.

Tony
Scottosaurus
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: February 15, 2006
KitMaker: 83 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 06:56 AM UTC
Hi Tony:

Aside from the Tamiya and Dragon decals (Tamiya from one of their modern armour aftermarket sheets, Dragon from the T-72G/M kit), I've got the recent Decalcomaniacs sheet "T-72s Around the World" (DM-042), which has cockades and serials for three Finnish T-72s (as well as a number of other interesting tanks, including a Romanian, Algerian, Hungarian, Czechoslovakian, Polish, and several Iraqi subjects). To be honest, though, I'm rather disappointed in the quality of them, since the blue in the roundels can be seen to be pixellated (as are all of the colours on the sheet other than the white). Quite a shame, really. Anybody interested in the sheet? :-)

I live in hope that somebody like Echelon Fine Details will do a super-comprehensive sheet for Finnish AFVs that will allow one to mix and match serials to make any FInnish tank, and also have some of the stencilling present on these tanks. It's a pity that no Finnish company has done a good set of postwar Finnish armour decals. I haven't looked closely at the Bronco Comet's decal sheet, but it has Finnish markings as well. I don't know whether the right numbers are on there to recreate Finnish T-72 serials.

My particular challenge is that the tank I want to do (Ps-264-100) has an EMT-7 anti-magnetic mine device on the bow, and the serial is replaced on that. So, I need an extra set of serials plus the repeated 0 means I'm looking at a lot of sheets to potentially cannibalize.

Cheers,

Scott
Hiski
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Turku ja Pori, Finland
Joined: April 19, 2006
KitMaker: 11 posts
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Posted: Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 10:54 PM UTC
Hello,

Nice to hear that someone is interested in Finnish vehicles! I actually started a topic in the Finnish IPMS forum about your enquiry and encouraged them to send information or pictures on the Finnish T-72s. I'll get back to you if I get some info.

But here's link to web page of Finnish Defense Forces with some pictures of T-72: http://www.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesittely/index.dsp?level=100&equipment=66
Removed by original poster on 08/23/09 - 06:35:57 (GMT).
mastercaster
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United States
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 21 posts
Armorama: 17 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 02:13 PM UTC
Hiski,

I happened to find this thread through Google while looking for pics of Finnish T-72s. I have a 1/16th scale T-72 (not RC) that I will be building and wanted to find an interesting paint scheme for it. After laying eyes on the Finnish T-72s, I knew I had found a winner. My problem at this point is finding the correct paint colors (and brands) to finish (no pun intended) my T-72 once it is built. Would you happen to have this information? Any help is appreciated, and not only from Hiski.

In case any of you were wondering about my call sign, I'm a professional model maker living in Orlando, FL. We do mostly architectural models, but on occaision, do work for Disney and Universal Studios (what I'm working on right now as a matter of fact). We also have a line of post WWII USN naval warships. Perhaps you've heard of them (JAG). In any case, many thanks in advance for answers to my questions.
Emeritus
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Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
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Posted: Monday, June 23, 2008 - 02:41 AM UTC
Hi,

There's an article about Finnish AFV colors on IPMS Finland's site, found here

Although it's in Finnish, the section in question is easily translated. All paint codes refer to Humbrol enamels.

Modern camo:
Dark green AN11
10 parts HU75
6 parts HU131

Light green AN22:
HU102

Black AN44
HU33


Regarding the markings, I have that Kuivalainen roundel sheet, and I can wholeheartedly recommmend it. Superb stuff.
I think it could be used in 1:16 scale as well, there's quite a selection of different sizes in the sheet, I'll check it.

For 1:35 scale, in addition to the decalcomaniacs sheet, registry numbers can also be sourced from Wiking-decal sheet(s).
Although they're for WW2 subjects, the numbers can be arranged to represent just about any AFV needed, with very little or no modification..

I hope this is of help.


Edit: Indeed, the roundel sheet has suitably sized roundels, both for 240mm and 150mm diameter ones for 1:16 scale.
A quick googling showed the sheet listed in two (foreign) online stores:
http://www.blackbirdmodels.co.uk/finnish-af-national-insignia-7-p.asp
http://www.lindenhillimports.com/kuivalainen.htm
Or you could ask straight from "the man":
http://www.kolumbus.fi/martti.kuivalainen/engindex.html
junglejim
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,728 posts
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Posted: Monday, June 23, 2008 - 04:29 AM UTC
Also let's not forget the new Echelon 1:35 decals for the Finn T-72, very nice (Scott you saw the future!). Check out this nice FInnish T-55 build for colour info as well:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1213902567/Finnish+T-55+WIP+part+3

Cheers,
Jim
mastercaster
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United States
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 21 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 05:47 PM UTC
Many thanks for the help guys! I have dispatched an e-mail to Martti in Finland. Hopefully he can help me out. The toolbox and a sheet of roundels doesn't add up to his 20.00 Euro minimum, so I'm hoping to work something out. It would be nice if the turret were still in production, but alas, no. I've tried to post some pics of what I have to work with, but I'm not sure if they will load and show up. Here goes nothing :^)

Apparently no joy on the pics. I must be doing something wrong. I'm a whiz on the laser and with Corel, but when it comes to posting pics on the damn boards, I'm a complete failure. Crapola

Tom
mastercaster
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United States
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Posted: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 01:57 PM UTC








Hopefully, this will do it. If not, I give up.

Woo Hoo !!!!!!!!!!!! success at last. I learn something new every day. (or at least try to)
Emeritus
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Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 06:17 AM UTC
Looks awesome. Damn, that thing is huge!
What manufacturer's kit is it?

When ordering the JS-models turret stowage bin, keep in mind that it's made to fit their resin turret, so it won't probably fit the Tamiya turret without some modification.

Combat Models seems to also have JS-models stuff (including both the T-72 turret and the stowage bin). Their site is unfortunately all in Finnish, but here's their email address: info[youknowwhatcomeshere]combatmodels.net

With the new Echelon sheet out, there shouldn't problems in finding 1:35 decals, but in case you run into problems finding the roundel sheet for the 1:16 version, drop me a PM.
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 08:31 AM UTC
Wow! That one must have set you back quite a bit, but it looks impressive.
zululand66
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: August 07, 2002
KitMaker: 233 posts
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Posted: Friday, June 27, 2008 - 04:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I've got the recent Decalcomaniacs sheet "T-72s Around the World" (DM-042), which has cockades and serials for three Finnish T-72s (as well as a number of other interesting tanks, including a Romanian, Algerian, Hungarian, Czechoslovakian, Polish, and several Iraqi subjects). To be honest, though, I'm rather disappointed in the quality of them, since the blue in the roundels can be seen to be pixellated (as are all of the colours on the sheet other than the white). Quite a shame, really. Anybody interested in the sheet? :-)



Hi Scott,
Actually, it's not pixellation. It's known as "dither." This is because of the way Alps printers lay down their inks when mixing colors. It's supposed to be a random pattern of dots to make the colors blend to the eye. Unfortunately, being a machine the "randomness" isn't very random. That being said, I've made a number of corrections to the sheet. It's still a shame that you did not contact me when you bought it from me. I could have taken steps to make sure you were satisfied with your purchase. As a last ditch, I would have refunded your money. But you didn't and now seem to take every opportunity to broadcast the problem (which has been solved, BTW). As a small hobby-related business owner, I would think you might be a little more understanding of the issues involved, especially when it comes to bad press.
I'm going to send you a sheet with the medals you didn't get at AMPS (you left early?) back in April. Also, being that our community is so small, be careful who you blast, you never know might be in a position to help you later.
Regards,
Georg Eyerman
Decalcomaniacs!
chris1
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Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: October 25, 2005
KitMaker: 949 posts
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Posted: Friday, June 27, 2008 - 06:14 PM UTC
hi there Pumapower
I seem to recall that there was an article on a Finnish T72 command tank in an issue of Military Modelling,
I'd suggest checking out their website as they have many older articles there.
If you have no luck I may be able to check my back issues for the articles and Email them to you if I still have it.

Regards
Chris
mastercaster
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United States
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 21 posts
Armorama: 17 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 04:27 PM UTC
Emeritus,

Thanks for the link to Combat Models. I haven't gotten an e-mail back from Martti about the tool box or decals. Guess he isn't interested in dealing with a Yank. He should have had plenty of time to read and at least respond to my e-mail. I will try Combat Models. Hope one of them understands English. I won't be building the 1:35 Tamiya kit. I just had put that in the photos for size comparison. The kit is an old JSP kit that has been OOP since 1996. It was patterned off of the Tamiya kit, hence the incorrect shape of the turret. The pattern maker didn't realize at the time that the Tamiya kit was incorrect. Keep in mind that the pattern was made in 1995 and reference material was not as plentiful as it is now.

I know I have quite a few changes to make to the basic kit. I may not go "all out", but I will change the shape of the turret on the 1:16th scale kit. Having seen one of these beasts fully assembled "with" the metal track links, I can tell you that the darn thing has scale weight. It is one HEAVY son of a gun. I wanted to get the 1:35 tool box so that I would have an easier time scaling it up to fit the 1:16th kit.

I'm also not going to use decals. I will be cutting out stencils with a laser, so I can air brush the markings on.

We'll see how it goes.

Thanks

Also, DJ, The kit didn't set me back any at all. All the castings were from bad casts at JSP. Some parts, I duplicated on my own if I did not have enough bad ones. I worked for JSP for (3) yrs. Hence my call sign. I've been a master moldmaker/caster for 15yrs. I also have a 1:16th scale M1A2, Sdkfz 251D, and the main parts to do a M-16. That is unless Trumpeter gets off their lazy butt and puts it out in plastic first. The 251 will one day become a 251/20 carrier for the UHU infra-red searchlight. I already have a 1:16th scale 251/7 finished and on the shelf gathering dust. Also planning on doing a 1:16th scale M-51 Isreali Sherman. Lots of kits, so little time.
Scottosaurus
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: February 15, 2006
KitMaker: 83 posts
Armorama: 59 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 19, 2008 - 04:23 PM UTC
Hi Tom:

The 1/16 T-72 is very impressive! It would be very nice to see it in production, especially with that scale experiencing a bit of a resurgence. What ever happened to the JS moulds, anyways? If it would help, I could photograph the JS turret and tool box on a grid plus do some measurements to help you scratchbuild a large scale one. As was mentioned previously, the JS tool box is sized to fit the JS turret and not the Tamiya one, so you would probably want to take the same approach building one to fit your turret. Feel free to email me for some overhead photos of Finnish T-72s that might help with your project.

Cheers,

Scott

Now on to other things:


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I've got the recent Decalcomaniacs sheet "T-72s Around the World" (DM-042), which has cockades and serials for three Finnish T-72s (as well as a number of other interesting tanks, including a Romanian, Algerian, Hungarian, Czechoslovakian, Polish, and several Iraqi subjects). To be honest, though, I'm rather disappointed in the quality of them, since the blue in the roundels can be seen to be pixellated (as are all of the colours on the sheet other than the white). Quite a shame, really. Anybody interested in the sheet? :-)



Hi Scott,
Actually, it's not pixellation. It's known as "dither." This is because of the way Alps printers lay down their inks when mixing colors. It's supposed to be a random pattern of dots to make the colors blend to the eye. Unfortunately, being a machine the "randomness" isn't very random. That being said, I've made a number of corrections to the sheet. It's still a shame that you did not contact me when you bought it from me. I could have taken steps to make sure you were satisfied with your purchase. As a last ditch, I would have refunded your money. But you didn't and now seem to take every opportunity to broadcast the problem (which has been solved, BTW). As a small hobby-related business owner, I would think you might be a little more understanding of the issues involved, especially when it comes to bad press.
I'm going to send you a sheet with the medals you didn't get at AMPS (you left early?) back in April. Also, being that our community is so small, be careful who you blast, you never know might be in a position to help you later.
Regards,
Georg Eyerman
Decalcomaniacs!



Hi Georg:

Hmm, and here I thought we had dealt with this offline a year and a half ago. I'm a bit surprised to see this come up now, especially with some curious comments ("seem to take every opportunity to broadcast the problem" - other than this post, which was made 19 months ago, how many times have I brought it up? I can assure you that I haven't spoken of Decalcomaniacs or yourself since we traded emails on this subject back in the spring of 2007 and I apologized then). Perhaps you didn't realize that this post dated back to March 2007. I do regret the quip at the end of my assessment of the T-72 sheet, but I still don't believe that anything else that I said at the time was inaccurate. I am glad to hear that you have solved the issue. Anyways, if I have to apologize again in order to regain my good standing in the small community of armour modellers and suppliers, so be it. My apologies.

I'm afraid I never got my family's AMPS medals - when were they sent out? As has been the case at previous AMPS shows, my wife and I left on Saturday afternoon from Auburn to get back home to our children for Saturday night. I'm sorry that I didn't see this posting much earlier; it's only serendipity that I saw it now, since it popped up when I did a Google search on "T-72 EMT 7." Otherwise I would have responded much earlier.

Please feel free to contact me offline again at [email protected].

Cheers,

Scott
Scottosaurus
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: February 15, 2006
KitMaker: 83 posts
Armorama: 59 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 02:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Many thanks for the help guys! I have dispatched an e-mail to Martti in Finland. Hopefully he can help me out. The toolbox and a sheet of roundels doesn't add up to his 20.00 Euro minimum, so I'm hoping to work something out. It would be nice if the turret were still in production, but alas, no. I've tried to post some pics of what I have to work with, but I'm not sure if they will load and show up. Here goes nothing :^)

Apparently no joy on the pics. I must be doing something wrong. I'm a whiz on the laser and with Corel, but when it comes to posting pics on the damn boards, I'm a complete failure. Crapola

Tom


Hi Tom:

I don't know if you are aware that JS-Models just announced that their 1/35 corrected T-72M1 turret is being re-released.

Cheers,

Scott
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