I have the superb Legend Sandbag set (LF 1117 Sherman M4A3 Sandbag Armor Set). Really detailed. I want to put it on the Tamiya M4 105 equipped vehicle. I cannot find a photo of the 105 version with sandbags. Does anyone have a reference to support or refute placing sandbags on this type vehicle? Also, what color should the angle iron supporting the bags be painted?
thanks
DJ
Hosted by Darren Baker
Sandbags on M4A3 with 105
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 11:45 PM UTC
PantherF
Joined: June 10, 2005
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Posted: Friday, March 23, 2007 - 12:08 AM UTC
I have seen it and have a photo at home. If someone doesn't beat me to it I'll try to get it up tonight!
Jeff
Jeff
exer
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Posted: Friday, March 23, 2007 - 01:04 AM UTC
I think I've seen it too but can't remember where.
Since the iron brackets were put on by the ordinance (Do I mean Engineers) companies they would have put a coat of olive drab on but not having an undercoat or a baked finish you can chip away to your hearts content. There is a photo in one of Steve Zaloga's Sherman Books of a Sherman with sandbags and racks getting a coat of black camouflage over OD and they are spraying the sandbags, jerry cans, tools, the lot.
Quoted Text
what color should the angle iron supporting the bags be painted?
Since the iron brackets were put on by the ordinance (Do I mean Engineers) companies they would have put a coat of olive drab on but not having an undercoat or a baked finish you can chip away to your hearts content. There is a photo in one of Steve Zaloga's Sherman Books of a Sherman with sandbags and racks getting a coat of black camouflage over OD and they are spraying the sandbags, jerry cans, tools, the lot.
PantherF
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Posted: Friday, March 23, 2007 - 04:13 AM UTC
I found this in the book titled: "Weapons of Patton's Armies" on page 51.
The caption reads: Crewmen of a US Army M4A3 medium tank armed with a turret-mounted 105mm howitzer are removing ammunition from it's shipping containers prior to loading their vehicle for it's next fire support mission. Two M4 medium tanks mounting the 105 mm howitzer were normally assigned to the headquarters company of US Army armored division battalions. When introduced into service, they replaced the older generation M8 75mm howitzer motor carriage.
Hope this helped.
Jeff
The caption reads: Crewmen of a US Army M4A3 medium tank armed with a turret-mounted 105mm howitzer are removing ammunition from it's shipping containers prior to loading their vehicle for it's next fire support mission. Two M4 medium tanks mounting the 105 mm howitzer were normally assigned to the headquarters company of US Army armored division battalions. When introduced into service, they replaced the older generation M8 75mm howitzer motor carriage.
Hope this helped.
Jeff
4x4RockCrawler
Joined: January 11, 2007
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Posted: Friday, March 23, 2007 - 09:59 AM UTC
In Osprey's Sherman Medium Tank by Steve Zaloga page 37 there in a picture of engineers painting a sandbagged Sherman. The exact caption reads,
"Engineers put the finishing touches to a sandbag amouring job by painting the vehicle in Olive Drab and black swathes."
It's not a 105
"Engineers put the finishing touches to a sandbag amouring job by painting the vehicle in Olive Drab and black swathes."
It's not a 105
HONEYCUT
Joined: May 07, 2003
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Posted: Friday, March 23, 2007 - 10:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Where do you get this information from? All the pics I've seen, they just welded on scrap angel iron, dumped the sandbags in, and went on their way.
All the pics I've seen show the sandbags meticulously placed, one would assume to provide an even protective layer
Quoted Text
They didn't have time to "pimp my tank".
You've lost me here...
Considering colour archive reference photos of the framework for sandbags (to suggest otherwise) would be rare, I don't think it would be too ambitious to suggest that they gave the empty framework a spray of OD if it was on hand
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
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Posted: Friday, March 23, 2007 - 03:10 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextSince the iron brackets were put on by the ordinance (Do I mean Engineers) companies they would have put a coat of olive drab
Where do you get this information from? All the pics I've seen, they just welded on scrap angel iron, dumped the sandbags in, and went on their way. The iron would be a dark weathered color. It might be a bit shiny where the welds were. If it'd been on long enough, the welds would have rust around them.Yes, some were camoed up later, then they just sprayed that over everything, bags and all. They didn't have time to "pimp my tank".
Why I get my info from Mr Steve Zaloga
Plate F2 M4A3E8 781st Tank Battalion, US 100th Infantry Division, ladye , France March 1945.
A good example of a heavily sandbagged tank. These modifications were frequently carried out by engineer companies, which finished the job off by repainting the whole vehicle, sandbags and all. In this case the Sherman is painted in the most common scheme -No.10 Black over No. 9 Olive Drab
-Sherman Medium Tank 1942–45
(New Vanguard 3)
Author: Steven J Zaloga
Where do you get your information from Gary?
PantherF
Joined: June 10, 2005
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Posted: Friday, March 23, 2007 - 05:49 PM UTC
I've got a picture around at home that shows an E8 with the angle iron holding (of all things) some logs and it was in color and I do believe the scrap iron was not painted at all. It had a rust color while the rest of the tank was the standard OD.
I guess I would presume that if a flat black over OD camo was apllied then it would still be rust with some areas having black paint.
I you want me to find that photo let me know, otherwise I think it would be the modelers preference on what to do but I would leave the scrap iron rust colored and if a black camo was to be used only hit those areas leaving some unpainted.
Jeff
I guess I would presume that if a flat black over OD camo was apllied then it would still be rust with some areas having black paint.
I you want me to find that photo let me know, otherwise I think it would be the modelers preference on what to do but I would leave the scrap iron rust colored and if a black camo was to be used only hit those areas leaving some unpainted.
Jeff
exer
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Posted: Friday, March 23, 2007 - 06:59 PM UTC
If it's not too much trouble I'd like to see it
4x4RockCrawler
Joined: January 11, 2007
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Posted: Friday, March 23, 2007 - 07:31 PM UTC
Sounds like there is documentation for both leaving it raw and spraying it over. That's actually great because now it allows for us modelers to build greater variations of such field work.
Red4
Joined: April 01, 2002
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Posted: Friday, March 23, 2007 - 08:44 PM UTC
DJ, build it how you like it. Thats the only really important thing. Paint vs. no paint vs. rust etc..... Its your model, have some fun with it. "Q" 
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
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Posted: Friday, March 23, 2007 - 10:50 PM UTC
DJ Approx 58 seconds into this youtube video is some film of a 105 Sherman with sandbags. It looks colourized so no help with colour but interesting for your research.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-7JZIHsRN0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-7JZIHsRN0
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 09:53 PM UTC
My Friends-- my internet is now functioning and I am in your debt for the fine assistance you have offered to answer my question. Pat the You Tube site is superb and Matt I shall build and post photos of my work.
thanks again
DJ
thanks again
DJ
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