I have a Tasca firefly on order and want to fit a 50 cal on the turret,
did the Brits use these?
what would be the the best one to go for?,the Tasca one looks neat ?
is it avalible in the U.K?
Cheers team
Andy
Hosted by Darren Baker
Firefly .50 cal
Torchy
#047
Joined: September 13, 2005
KitMaker: 2,016 posts
Armorama: 1,187 posts
Posted: Monday, March 26, 2007 - 02:49 PM UTC
Hi all
I have a Tasca firefly on order and want to fit a 50 cal on the turret,
did the Brits use these?
what would be the the best one to go for?,the Tasca one looks neat ?
is it avalible in the U.K?
Cheers team
Andy
I have a Tasca firefly on order and want to fit a 50 cal on the turret,
did the Brits use these?
what would be the the best one to go for?,the Tasca one looks neat ?
is it avalible in the U.K?
Cheers team
Andy
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Monday, March 26, 2007 - 04:05 PM UTC
Very few British tanks carried the .50 in. Browning heavy machine gun. When they carried one on the turret top at all, it was usually the .30.
Halfyank
Joined: February 01, 2003
KitMaker: 5,221 posts
Armorama: 1,245 posts
Posted: Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:59 PM UTC
While they were rare, like Gerald says, they weren't unheard of. I just flipped through the Concord British Tanks of WWII, volumes 1 and 2, I found about ten pictures of British Shermans carrying machine guns. Not to contradict Gerald though only a couple of these were the .30, the rest had the .50. Unfortunately none of them were Fireflys. That doesn't mean they never carried a .50, just that I couldn't find one. You might try looking for Firefly on http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/qryPhotoImg.asp, the photo reference for the Imperial War Museum.
As far as which .50 to use the Academy machine gun kit, in plastic, is really pretty good and very reasonably priced.
As far as which .50 to use the Academy machine gun kit, in plastic, is really pretty good and very reasonably priced.
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:18 PM UTC
Hi Andy,
i'd agree, for some reason they don't seem very common on British Fireflies, but if you want put one on, never say never with Shermans!!!!
The Acedemy set is a good one and cost effective too.
Enjoy the build it looks like an excellent kit.
Cheers
Al
i'd agree, for some reason they don't seem very common on British Fireflies, but if you want put one on, never say never with Shermans!!!!
The Acedemy set is a good one and cost effective too.
Enjoy the build it looks like an excellent kit.
Cheers
Al
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:20 PM UTC
The Tasca .50s are the best on the market - the Academy ones, while not too bad, don't even come close
Drader
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 2,798 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 02:21 PM UTC
.50s appear on the official stowage diagrams, but not conclusively in any photos I've seen - the nearest is the shrouded shape on this Guards IC Hybrid, which is possibly a .30cal
David
David
Halfyank
Joined: February 01, 2003
KitMaker: 5,221 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 08:47 PM UTC
I've now gone through three books, the Concord "At war" series on British Tanks vol 1 and 2, and British Shermans, plus some 50 pics of Fireflys on IWM photo site, and still haven't seen a Firefly with a .50. Like Alan says " never say never with Shermans!!!!" but it's hard to argue with all that negative photo evidence. Maybe there is some reason Fireflys wouldn't carry a .50?
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 08:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Maybe there is some reason Fireflys wouldn't carry a .50?
Simply one of space - .30 cal ammunition takes up a lot less space than .50 cal. Remember that additional ammunition would (for safety) be carried INSIDE the hull. When I was talking to some Royal Marines about their up-gunned Landrovers, they said that they prefer to equip it with the GPMG as weight of the .50 cal ammunition is much greater. May well have been as mundane as that...
SunTsu
Joined: April 12, 2005
KitMaker: 48 posts
Armorama: 47 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 09:35 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextMaybe there is some reason Fireflys wouldn't carry a .50?
Simply one of space - .30 cal ammunition takes up a lot less space than .50 cal. Remember that additional ammunition would (for safety) be carried INSIDE the hull. When I was talking to some Royal Marines about their up-gunned Landrovers, they said that they prefer to equip it with the GPMG as weight of the .50 cal ammunition is much greater. May well have been as mundane as that...
It could also be that, unlike the yanks, teh brits didn't really expected their Tank Commanders to man an AAMG (which si what the .50 was), and when the firefly was in for modification (y'know, installing that nice long gun and all that), they removed the .50 as well...
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 01:50 AM UTC
Hi Guys,
I'd go with the space theory. When I was reading 'The Armoured Micks' there's an excellent first hand account of what it was like to fight in one of these and space was a major problem. The 17pde is a BIG gun and didn't leave a lot of room for much else.
Cheers
Al
I'd go with the space theory. When I was reading 'The Armoured Micks' there's an excellent first hand account of what it was like to fight in one of these and space was a major problem. The 17pde is a BIG gun and didn't leave a lot of room for much else.
Cheers
Al
4x4RockCrawler
Joined: January 11, 2007
KitMaker: 31 posts
Armorama: 26 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 03:41 AM UTC
I'll see if I can dig up the reference but the Brits also didn't like the .50 because it blocked the hatches when in certain positions. Too many times a Firely would get hit and the .50 would spin around. In a certain position it would impede opening both the commnader and loader's hatches when seconds count.
I think you will find that the .50 is not common in any version of Sherman in the hands of the Brits
I think you will find that the .50 is not common in any version of Sherman in the hands of the Brits
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 05:31 AM UTC
Hi Rocker,
Again I'd go with that, getting out of them past the 17pdr was a major operation as the gun had to be depressed to let the loader or was it radio operator escape which in turn depending upon the position it was facing could trap the driver/co driver inside.
You see quite a lot of .50cals on the early M4A1 Mk IIs, they seem to have been popular with some units and not others which would be very typically British.
Cheers
Al
Again I'd go with that, getting out of them past the 17pdr was a major operation as the gun had to be depressed to let the loader or was it radio operator escape which in turn depending upon the position it was facing could trap the driver/co driver inside.
You see quite a lot of .50cals on the early M4A1 Mk IIs, they seem to have been popular with some units and not others which would be very typically British.
Cheers
Al
ALBOWIE
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
Armorama: 1,565 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 09:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextMaybe there is some reason Fireflys wouldn't carry a .50?
Simply one of space - .30 cal ammunition takes up a lot less space than .50 cal. Remember that additional ammunition would (for safety) be carried INSIDE the hull. When I was talking to some Royal Marines about their up-gunned Landrovers, they said that they prefer to equip it with the GPMG as weight of the .50 cal ammunition is much greater. May well have been as mundane as that...
Their is another reason for the 30 cal in place of the 50. The 30 cal could be used quite easily from WITHIN the Comds hatch whilst the 50 cal required you to leave the turret to use against ground targets.
Cheers
Al
Halfyank
Joined: February 01, 2003
KitMaker: 5,221 posts
Armorama: 1,245 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 10:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
they seem to have been popular with some units and not others which would be very typically British.
That does seem to be typically British. It almost gets to the point you can tell some units from others just by the way they mark their tanks, and I'm not talking the official markings, or how they arrange their storage, or things like that. My guess is the colonel commanding, or probably the Regimental Sergent Major, would have a lot of say in such things.
Photographic evidence can be misleading. Photographers may think the big .50 makes a good interesting subject, and photograph them more than others. It doesn't mean they were more common, just more photographed.
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 12:18 PM UTC
Hi Rodger,
Know what you mean but never say never
I did fit one to my original firefly, but too if off, you could see how difficult it was to get in/out of the commanders cupola and crews were more precious than tanks.
Cheers
Al
Know what you mean but never say never
I did fit one to my original firefly, but too if off, you could see how difficult it was to get in/out of the commanders cupola and crews were more precious than tanks.Cheers
Al
Drader
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 2,798 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 12:25 PM UTC
The official stowage diagrams show .50cal ammunition stowed in the hull, in the former co-driver's position.
David
David
Torchy
#047
Joined: September 13, 2005
KitMaker: 2,016 posts
Armorama: 1,187 posts
Posted: Friday, March 30, 2007 - 02:01 AM UTC
Hi guys
thanks for the replies ,I've ordered the Tasca one,I might just fit it and dare anyone to prove it wrong 
Andy
thanks for the replies
,I've ordered the Tasca one,I might just fit it and dare anyone to prove it wrong Andy
Plasticbattle
#003
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Friday, March 30, 2007 - 05:17 AM UTC
See the review for the Tasca 50 cals on PMMS, plus a comparison view between, Tasca, tamiya, Dragon, AFV Club and Academy.
50 cal with tripod
50 cal with cradle
Academy - USmachine gun set
50 cal with tripod
50 cal with cradle
Academy - USmachine gun set
Col_Steamer
Joined: October 07, 2003
KitMaker: 29 posts
Armorama: 18 posts
Posted: Friday, March 30, 2007 - 05:45 AM UTC
Sherman VC Firefly by Wojciech J. Gawrych, Armor PhotoGallery #13
Has at least two photos clearly showing Fireflies with a .50 cal
The captions say Polish 1st Armor Division, so you might want to look for Polish armor pictures for evidence of the big MG on Fireflies
Has at least two photos clearly showing Fireflies with a .50 cal
The captions say Polish 1st Armor Division, so you might want to look for Polish armor pictures for evidence of the big MG on Fireflies
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