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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
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T-72M4CZ
woodstock74
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: December 28, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 07:46 AM UTC
Can anyeone tell me what T-72 turret the T-72M4CZ starts out with? I have PanzerShop's T-72M4CZ kit and must say I'm really dissapointed in the turret as it is very basic but for the ERA and added sight on the LH side. Half wondering if I could find a correct Blast or AEF base T-72 turret and scratch build the ERA and graft the -M4CZ sight onto it. Like I have time for that...!
mat
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Limburg, Netherlands
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Posted: Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 10:01 PM UTC
well,

If my souces are correct, the Czech have upgraded their T-72m1 tanks with the m4 package developed by the VOP 25 facility. The updating started in 1996 so the turret should be a pre-1996 m1 model. Problem is now: are they Czech built T72m's (or T72G) or Russian T-72M's. Again mr Zaloga tells that the Czech bought the Russian ones in 1977. Well, the time between 1977 and 1996 is very long so I think that in 1996 they would have used their own manufactured T-72M's for their army so I guess that a late model Czech T-72M1 is the basic tank turret you need.

But I could be very very wrong ofcourse


Let's wait for an answer from Jacques
woodstock74
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Posted: Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 10:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

well,

If my souces are correct, the Czech have upgraded their T-72m1 tanks with the m4 package developed by the VOP 25 facility. The updating started in 1996 so the turret should be a pre-1996 m1 model. Problem is now: are they Czech built T72m's (or T72G) or Russian T-72M's. Again mr Zaloga tells that the Czech bought the Russian ones in 1977. Well, the time between 1977 and 1996 is very long so I think that in 1996 they would have used their own manufactured T-72M's for their army so I guess that a late model Czech T-72M1 is the basic tank turret you need.

But I could be very very wrong ofcourse


Let's wait for an answer from Jacques


Thanks for the reply. T-72M1, of perhaps Czech build? Does anyone make that...better yet actually, how does the Czech turret differ from the Standard T-72M1?
Jacques
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Minnesota, United States
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Posted: Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 10:10 PM UTC
I am surprised that any AEF turret would be considered superior to Panzershops work, but I suppose...you are not being TOO picky, are you Mike?

Looking at the few pics I have, it looks like it is made on a improved -A turret as all -B turrets I have seen have the applique. I could be wrong though...
mat
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Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
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Posted: Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 10:36 PM UTC
if I look at a pic of the turret roof, the top has a part which is thicker and more rectangular in shape. On this part the roof ERA is mounted. When I look at the tow hooks on the glacis plate, they don't have the "tpical" Russian stile front and back hook thingy (if you know what I mean) but they are just a vertically welded steel plate with a circular whole in it. But that could be a part of the M4 update ofcourse

Wheels are 8-spoke

maybe this helps a bit more
mat
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Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
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Posted: Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 10:55 PM UTC
nice link:

http://www.army.cz/scripts/detail.php?id=6642
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htarm/articles/20020514.aspx

last link says T-72m1

http://www.aeronautics.ru/tamara02.htm

I saw another T-72M4 with the typical Russian tow hooks, so I guess multiple types of T-72 have been upgraded, see this link:

http://pansarmuseum.se/en/tankday.aspx

this is getting confusing
Jacques
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Posted: Monday, April 23, 2007 - 06:21 AM UTC
A Czech or Russian built T-72M1 turret is pretty much equal to a -A. You can be optimistic and say they are built on the best and latest -A turrets!

Also, since these upgrades were also intended for export sales, they would probably want to be shown on somehwta different chassis...the one with the non-russian layout may have been a more extensive refit of a Czech built tank that had very few "miles" on it, and the typical Russian one may have just been another that was brought up to standard. I am not sure with all the rig-a-marole that went on in Eastern Europe in the 90's and early 00's...seems like everyone was trying to make a quick buck in upgrades and conversions and so you end up with a very interesting mess.
woodstock74
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Posted: Monday, April 23, 2007 - 03:51 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I am surprised that any AEF turret would be considered superior to Panzershops work, but I suppose...you are not being TOO picky, are you Mike?

Looking at the few pics I have, it looks like it is made on a improved -A turret as all -B turrets I have seen have the applique. I could be wrong though...


Certainly not being too picky, the Panzershop turret is crap! When I have time I'll post pics. In fact the whole conversion isn't too impressive, especially considereing the price paid. Didn't even come with the Aber T-72 ali barrel (or whomever's barrel the kit used to ship with).

Gary, good point about the Tamiya turret.
chefchris
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Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 01:37 AM UTC
Mike, I bought this kit when it first appeared about 2 yearsa ago and began putting ittogether - I thought the turret was crap too! The TC's TV sight is WAYYYYY off and all the other pcs are just copies of the tamiyas parts! I won't be buying asny more of the PS stuff anyhow. ....

woodstock74
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: December 28, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 08:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Mike, I bought this kit when it first appeared about 2 yearsa ago and began putting ittogether - I thought the turret was crap too! The TC's TV sight is WAYYYYY off and all the other pcs are just copies of the tamiyas parts! I won't be buying asny more of the PS stuff anyhow. ....



Indeed, espcially for the price, $100 for the kit! The turret ERA looks like clay...

Jacques
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Posted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 09:13 AM UTC
Wow, I am surprised. That is bad. Wonder why Libor put that out? Maybe a leftover from older years, or another person's masterwork?

And the turet shape seems wrong...?
chefchris
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Posted: Friday, May 04, 2007 - 09:03 PM UTC
Maybe miniarm should take a crack at this one. At least you would know the stuff would be worth the $$$. (As is the case with their T90 set, wheels & track.

I don't mind spending the money for a superior kit, it just needs to be as value asa well.

Dropped some chocolaste on my keyboard..... yeash right b/w the a and the s key.

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