Hi All,
I'm thinking of venturing into British WW2 armour for the first time (as far as I can remember) in 1/35, and, I'd like to know if this kit is still in production. I believe that this is the base kit I need for a British Sherman V it being the M4A4 variant. Anything else I should know? I'm no rivet counter and, am capable of a little scratching if needs be, but is this the best starting point.
TIA
Tom
Hosted by Darren Baker
Dragon kit # 6035 M4A4 Sherman
allycat
Joined: October 03, 2004
KitMaker: 942 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 01:20 PM UTC
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 01:52 PM UTC
Tom, first of all, # 6035 has been superceded (although you MAY still find them on e-bay or gathering dust in a LHS) by this:
http://www.dragonmodelsltd.com/html/6182-1.html
depends on whether or not you want to build a 75mm gun tank or a Firefly. If it's the latter, the only way to go is the TASCA Firefly. If you want to build the former, then you really need to have a look here:
http://www.formationsmodels.com
http://www.dragonmodelsltd.com/html/6182-1.html
depends on whether or not you want to build a 75mm gun tank or a Firefly. If it's the latter, the only way to go is the TASCA Firefly. If you want to build the former, then you really need to have a look here:
http://www.formationsmodels.com
allycat
Joined: October 03, 2004
KitMaker: 942 posts
Armorama: 571 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 02:08 PM UTC
Hi Jim,
Thanks for you quick response.
I seem to be a little confused
Your first link leads to the Dragon Firefly Vc (It's on my list).
But, in your text underneath you suggest the Tasca Firefly.
Are you saying I'd need the hull of the Dragon kit and a turret from the lower link for a 75mm gunned Sherman.
Or am I missing something else?
Tom
Thanks for you quick response.
I seem to be a little confused
Your first link leads to the Dragon Firefly Vc (It's on my list).
But, in your text underneath you suggest the Tasca Firefly.
Are you saying I'd need the hull of the Dragon kit and a turret from the lower link for a 75mm gunned Sherman.
Or am I missing something else?
Tom
HONEYCUT
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 4,002 posts
Armorama: 2,947 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 02:34 PM UTC
Gday Tom
Out of my comfort zone with the Brit/Comm stuff here (shame on me, shame
)
The first link Jim has is for the most recent Dragon offering for a Firefly.
The Tasca kit is the supposed pinnacle in plastic as far as Fireflys go.
The title of your thread suggests the M4A4 kit, a 75mm gunned version. If you want a more accurate version to replace the old Dragon M4A4, I think he is suggesting a formations resin update to produce a 75mm M4A4 combining the newer kits, either Dragon and Tasca) as mentioned.
Good heavens! I didn't even understand that myself...
Out of my comfort zone with the Brit/Comm stuff here (shame on me, shame
)The first link Jim has is for the most recent Dragon offering for a Firefly.
The Tasca kit is the supposed pinnacle in plastic as far as Fireflys go.
The title of your thread suggests the M4A4 kit, a 75mm gunned version. If you want a more accurate version to replace the old Dragon M4A4, I think he is suggesting a formations resin update to produce a 75mm M4A4 combining the newer kits, either Dragon and Tasca) as mentioned.
Good heavens! I didn't even understand that myself...
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 03:47 PM UTC
Tom - my apologies for lacking my usual clarity: 
M4a4 (75mm) - Basic ki is # 6182 with Formations upgrade.
Firefly - Nowadays the best game in town is the Tasca one. It is a DREAM kit... Adding this to the Formations set would be something to see indeed
M4a4 (75mm) - Basic ki is # 6182 with Formations upgrade.
Firefly - Nowadays the best game in town is the Tasca one. It is a DREAM kit... Adding this to the Formations set would be something to see indeed
hogarth
Joined: June 02, 2006
KitMaker: 672 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 04:15 PM UTC
jim is right, that the Tasca firefly with a replacement turret is best.
But the 6035 kit is in production. In fact it just came back into production 6 months ago, and the newest ones finally have the correct suspension (they used to have the upraised return rollers), the correct lower hull length, and all of the other updates found on DML 6182. It's not a bad kit, needs a bit of TLC (mold seams, better sandshield attachment strips, etc.), and can probably be found a lot cheaper than the Tasca kit + resin turret combo. Just be sure you buy a new one rather than an old ebay one, b/c if you get an older one it may not have the corrections.....I've found nothing on the outside of the box to identify it as the newer incarnation.
Rob
But the 6035 kit is in production. In fact it just came back into production 6 months ago, and the newest ones finally have the correct suspension (they used to have the upraised return rollers), the correct lower hull length, and all of the other updates found on DML 6182. It's not a bad kit, needs a bit of TLC (mold seams, better sandshield attachment strips, etc.), and can probably be found a lot cheaper than the Tasca kit + resin turret combo. Just be sure you buy a new one rather than an old ebay one, b/c if you get an older one it may not have the corrections.....I've found nothing on the outside of the box to identify it as the newer incarnation.
Rob
ltwilly
Joined: March 16, 2007
KitMaker: 29 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 04:47 PM UTC
The DML M4A4 up hull is realy not good(With some deadly mistakes....). Choose Tasca and try to convertion it into a normal M4A4. 
hogarth
Joined: June 02, 2006
KitMaker: 672 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 05:13 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The DML M4A4 up hull is realy not good(With some deadly mistakes....). Choose Tasca and try to convertion it into a normal M4A4.
Considering the original poster said he's "no rivet counter and can do some scratch work", I really don't think these "deadly mistakes" of which you speak are that big a deal. In fact, I don't think the errors are that big at all. Other than the undercuts under the "hoods" and the lack of raised weld seams, there's really not much wrong with the upper hull. And he can get one, if he shops carefully, for half the price of a Tasca/ firefly/resin replacement turret combo. Oh, and the applique plates are a bit small for the hull sides, but they can be replaced by Tamiya or Italeri ones, which pretty much everyone should have laying around since their M4A3s that come with them don't need them.
Rob
HONEYCUT
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 4,002 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 05:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
they can be replaced by Tamiya or Italeri ones, which pretty much everyone should have laying around since their M4A3s that come with them don't need them.
Oh yep... I have a few if you need 'em Rob
hogarth
Joined: June 02, 2006
KitMaker: 672 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 06:26 PM UTC
Oh, I don't need them. I have plenty as well, believe me. I meant for the original poster.
Rob
Rob
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 07:20 PM UTC
There's a NEW set of applique armor just been released from TW:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/news/2510
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/news/2510
allycat
Joined: October 03, 2004
KitMaker: 942 posts
Armorama: 571 posts
Posted: Monday, May 07, 2007 - 02:02 PM UTC
Thanks for your feedback, all.
My wife picked me up the Dragon Firefly kit yesterday #6323.
I don't build dios as such, but if possible I group together several vehicles that are interconnected somehow (same or sister unit, maybe in the same battle etc.) so I have the Firefly, Tamiya Bren carrier and Jeep and some Dragon figures.
Just one more thing, assuming I can't find the 6035 kit, what other types of Sherman 75mm armed tanks saw service with the British in NW Europe in June-December 1944?
I assume a Mk. I hybrid would be pretty safe because they were the base vehicle for one of the Firefly conversions.
How about the Mk. II, III and IV?
Did the British use the 76mm gunned tanks in France?
All help is greatly appreciated
Tom
My wife picked me up the Dragon Firefly kit yesterday #6323.
I don't build dios as such, but if possible I group together several vehicles that are interconnected somehow (same or sister unit, maybe in the same battle etc.) so I have the Firefly, Tamiya Bren carrier and Jeep and some Dragon figures.
Just one more thing, assuming I can't find the 6035 kit, what other types of Sherman 75mm armed tanks saw service with the British in NW Europe in June-December 1944?
I assume a Mk. I hybrid would be pretty safe because they were the base vehicle for one of the Firefly conversions.
How about the Mk. II, III and IV?
Did the British use the 76mm gunned tanks in France?
All help is greatly appreciated
Tom
Drader
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 2,798 posts
Posted: Monday, May 07, 2007 - 02:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Just one more thing, assuming I can't find the 6035 kit, what other types of Sherman 75mm armed tanks saw service with the British in NW Europe in June-December 1944?
I assume a Mk. I hybrid would be pretty safe because they were the base vehicle for one of the Firefly conversions.
How about the Mk. II, III and IV?
Did the British use the 76mm gunned tanks in France?
All help is greatly appreciated
Tom
The majority of 75mm gunned tanks in British service seem to have been IIIs and Vs, with lesser numbers of Is (including Hybrids) and IIs. The Dragon M4A2 Tarawa suitably rebadged is a definite option here). No Sherman IVs (M4A3) as only a handful were delivered. No 76mm-gunned tanks either, though the IIA (M4A1 (76)) did see action in NWE in Polish hands. Sherman IIAs were used by the British in Italy.
David
David
allycat
Joined: October 03, 2004
KitMaker: 942 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 07, 2007 - 05:49 PM UTC
Thanks, Drader,
If I luck out on the M4A4 kit I'll see if I can pick up the M4A2 Tarawa kit instead.
Tom
If I luck out on the M4A4 kit I'll see if I can pick up the M4A2 Tarawa kit instead.
Tom
ltwilly
Joined: March 16, 2007
KitMaker: 29 posts
Armorama: 28 posts
Posted: Friday, May 11, 2007 - 12:32 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Considering the original poster said he's "no rivet counter and can do some scratch work", I really don't think these "deadly mistakes" of which you speak are that big a deal. In fact, I don't think the errors are that big at all. Other than the undercuts under the "hoods" and the lack of raised weld seams, there's really not much wrong with the upper hull. And he can get one, if he shops carefully, for half the price of a Tasca/ firefly/resin replacement turret combo. Oh, and the applique plates are a bit small for the hull sides, but they can be replaced by Tamiya or Italeri ones, which pretty much everyone should have laying around since their M4A3s that come with them don't need them.
Rob
The Dragon M4A4 upper hull and lower hull were retooled as we know. I hold both old(6031/6121/3528) and new kits(such as new 6035 and 6182).
Maybe some old bugs were corrected. But some new bugs bringed....
The problems of turret are still there ,this made problems to the new hull. For myself these mistakes are deadly enough.... Dragon could make a plan for a new tooling but retooling their M4A4 series....
PS: In China, DRA6182 do not includ new turret with periscope open/close options! And one Tasca Firefly costs about six Dragon 6182!
blackhand
Joined: July 13, 2006
KitMaker: 96 posts
Armorama: 70 posts
Posted: Friday, May 11, 2007 - 04:50 PM UTC
Hi Tom if you want to build a British Sherman 75mm in Normandy i would suggest the Dragon Sherman 111 a large number served with 27th Armoured Brigade the only change you have to make is the turret rear box (blanket box ) the one supplied with the kit is suitable for North Africa or Italy otherwise everything you need is in the box .If you check out Bison decals their British sherman sets should give you some ideas. cheers Pat
jjumbo
Joined: August 27, 2006
KitMaker: 2,012 posts
Armorama: 1,949 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 12:51 AM UTC
Hey Guys,
If I'm not mistaken, you could also use Dragon's "Tarawa" M4A2 (kit #6062) as a British/Commonwealth Sherman III,
with a number of modifications.
I've seen photos of the Sherbrooke Fusiliers (27th Canadian Armoured Regiment) using
the "welded hood' Sherman III aka the DML"Tarawa" kit
I believe that Canadian units drew their tanks from the same tank stocks as British and other Commonwealth
units so I assume it could be used along with the DML Sherman III (#6313).
Cheers
jjumbo
If I'm not mistaken, you could also use Dragon's "Tarawa" M4A2 (kit #6062) as a British/Commonwealth Sherman III,
with a number of modifications.
I've seen photos of the Sherbrooke Fusiliers (27th Canadian Armoured Regiment) using
the "welded hood' Sherman III aka the DML"Tarawa" kit
I believe that Canadian units drew their tanks from the same tank stocks as British and other Commonwealth
units so I assume it could be used along with the DML Sherman III (#6313).
Cheers
jjumbo
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