Hi,
Working on first model in roughly 13 years. Its the AFV Centurion RAAC. Great kit, the best Ive seen come together since working on Revell mostly as a kid.
Cannot really find a flaw, but a gripe I do have. WHY? Why did they mold the road wheels so that you would have to go in and mask off the vinyl tires to paint that remaining lip.
In other words, you have the interior hub piece and the vinyl tires. The vinyl tires has a little lip and the interior walls that are supposed to be part of the wheel hub.
So, this means that there is a lot of luquid masking ahead of me. Any Suggestions?
Also, I wanted to put a little bit of landscape like shrubbery or brush to add texture to the tank. I would like to be as period specific as possible. Would the RAAC during Vietnam put the "Guillly Suit" on a tank?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
Hosted by Darren Baker
AFV Centurion gripe and question
cheese
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 106 posts
Armorama: 31 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 08:28 PM UTC
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 08:42 PM UTC
They molded the tires that way to get the interior detail on the wheels. To paint them, take the opposite tact-
Spray the inside of the wheels and the rim, then place a styrene disc of the appropriate diameter over the wheel, covering the lip. Spray black or dark grey. I find this better than masking outside the rim and trying to spray the tank color.
Spray the inside of the wheels and the rim, then place a styrene disc of the appropriate diameter over the wheel, covering the lip. Spray black or dark grey. I find this better than masking outside the rim and trying to spray the tank color.
Pedro
Joined: May 26, 2003
KitMaker: 1,208 posts
Armorama: 1,023 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 08:44 PM UTC
Hi Mike,
First off, welcome to the site!
They molded rim lips in vinyl, together with tyre to get the accurate inner lip detail as it wouldn't really be possible when using styrene injection technology, even slide molding wouldn't help. Beside, you 'd have to paint carefully or mask the all plastic wheels on any other kit and that's not really big deal, isn't it?
As for the second question I don't remember seing photos of Nam centurions with brushes put for additional camouflage, instead you can use stowage to add interest to your model (different jerrycans and equipment, even US stuff should work, in the turret basket and on the rear engine deck.
HTH
Cheers
Greg
First off, welcome to the site!
They molded rim lips in vinyl, together with tyre to get the accurate inner lip detail as it wouldn't really be possible when using styrene injection technology, even slide molding wouldn't help. Beside, you 'd have to paint carefully or mask the all plastic wheels on any other kit and that's not really big deal, isn't it?
As for the second question I don't remember seing photos of Nam centurions with brushes put for additional camouflage, instead you can use stowage to add interest to your model (different jerrycans and equipment, even US stuff should work, in the turret basket and on the rear engine deck.
HTH
Cheers
Greg
NebLWeffah
Joined: October 13, 2004
KitMaker: 1,683 posts
Armorama: 1,248 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 09:11 PM UTC
Hi there and welcome to the site!
I don't know about your foliage question, but having completed this kit just recently, I din't find the tires/road wheels to be a pain at all. I took the approach where I assembled the tires and wheels in their dual sets using Ambroid ProWeld glue, airbrushed them the green base colour then went around each of the 2 tires in a set with a thinned tire-black and a fine pointed brush and let capillary action do it's thing. If you've thinned the paint correctly, it just flows nicley around each tire edge where it meets the rim. Fill in the rest and it was done. I did them all in about 2 hours including drying time. I used to hate the thought of painting roadwheels until I discovered this technique. it works every time.
Bob
I don't know about your foliage question, but having completed this kit just recently, I din't find the tires/road wheels to be a pain at all. I took the approach where I assembled the tires and wheels in their dual sets using Ambroid ProWeld glue, airbrushed them the green base colour then went around each of the 2 tires in a set with a thinned tire-black and a fine pointed brush and let capillary action do it's thing. If you've thinned the paint correctly, it just flows nicley around each tire edge where it meets the rim. Fill in the rest and it was done. I did them all in about 2 hours including drying time. I used to hate the thought of painting roadwheels until I discovered this technique. it works every time.
Bob
Tankrider
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
Armorama: 1,208 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 09:49 PM UTC
Mike,
I am like Bob; I recently finished mine and found it simple to hand paint the rubber on the roadwheels with a brush instead of the masking methods that the others have mentoned. In my research of the Aussie Centrurions, I did not find any use of foilage, however if you want texture, then mud or dust is the way to go... PM me your e-mail and I wil send you pics of my Cent in its combination mud and dust garb.
John
I am like Bob; I recently finished mine and found it simple to hand paint the rubber on the roadwheels with a brush instead of the masking methods that the others have mentoned. In my research of the Aussie Centrurions, I did not find any use of foilage, however if you want texture, then mud or dust is the way to go... PM me your e-mail and I wil send you pics of my Cent in its combination mud and dust garb.
John
JohnByng
Joined: September 25, 2005
KitMaker: 36 posts
Armorama: 32 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 10:18 PM UTC
Mike, I agree. The tyres are a real pain. I haven't painted mine yet and I am not really worried about that but gluing them on straight was a real problem as some of them were a bit warped. I had to buy the suspension set to make up the numbers. It was only about four or five that didn't fit but if they could have moulded the tyres in styrene with the rim I think that would have been better.
Regards,
Roger
Regards,
Roger
NebLWeffah
Joined: October 13, 2004
KitMaker: 1,683 posts
Armorama: 1,248 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 10:34 PM UTC
Here's a photo of how they worked out.....
Bob
Bob
cheese
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 106 posts
Armorama: 31 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 11:24 PM UTC
Bravo, Greg, Bob, John and Roger,
Thanks
I looked up the foilage pic that I saw and it was an MK12. I guess I would have to wait for that build to replicate it. I am going to take your advice and busy up the the cargo area (but that will wait for some goodies that I will have to get from other kits). My stash is at 2 currently
I am a little undecided about my approach for the road wheels but it will definately be between either Bravo's suggested styrene disc or John's thinned capillary action technique.
I'll it in intervals to avoid getting too comfortable and making a mistake. Oh, Roger I feel your pain. Had two that gave me REAL problems and the track alignment wheels had warped as well.
Cheers,
Mike
Thanks
I looked up the foilage pic that I saw and it was an MK12. I guess I would have to wait for that build to replicate it. I am going to take your advice and busy up the the cargo area (but that will wait for some goodies that I will have to get from other kits). My stash is at 2 currently
I am a little undecided about my approach for the road wheels but it will definately be between either Bravo's suggested styrene disc or John's thinned capillary action technique.
I'll it in intervals to avoid getting too comfortable and making a mistake. Oh, Roger I feel your pain. Had two that gave me REAL problems and the track alignment wheels had warped as well.
Cheers,
Mike
jvazquez
Joined: September 26, 2006
KitMaker: 857 posts
Armorama: 811 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 12:15 AM UTC
I say forget the masking and all that jazz. You already have the lip as your guide, just hand paint them.
I don't know maybe it's just me but I find hand painting road wheels one of the easiest things and I don't know why people go through the hassle of masking. Even still you may have to touch it up anyway because of overspray.
I don't know maybe it's just me but I find hand painting road wheels one of the easiest things and I don't know why people go through the hassle of masking. Even still you may have to touch it up anyway because of overspray.
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 12:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I say forget the masking and all that jazz. You already have the lip as your guide, just hand paint them.
I don't know maybe it's just me but I find hand painting road wheels one of the easiest things and I don't know why people go through the hassle of masking. Even still you may have to touch it up anyway because of overspray.
How old are you? It might be that at 44, my eyes aren't as good any more. I can still hit steel plates at 1200m but have to use a magnifyng glass to read sprue numbers.
I used to paint by hand, but even if it weren't for the eyesight, I find masking to take about ten seconds per wheel. Even multiplied by 24, it's a pretty fast job. Once the disc is made (by spinning a fairly circular piece of styrene on a Dremelagainst some wet/dry paper) it stays on each whell with a little saliva or water. And no overspray this way either. Whatever works best. On some vehicles I don't even paint it, but just muddy it up as in above post.
As for the foliage, it would probably not be incorrect-indeed cool-to have several branches stuck up underneath the fenders, and if using the smoke dicharhers, a few stuck in those as well.
jvazquez
Joined: September 26, 2006
KitMaker: 857 posts
Armorama: 811 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 02:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI say forget the masking and all that jazz. You already have the lip as your guide, just hand paint them.
I don't know maybe it's just me but I find hand painting road wheels one of the easiest things and I don't know why people go through the hassle of masking. Even still you may have to touch it up anyway because of overspray.
How old are you? It might be that at 44, my eyes aren't as good any more. I can still hit steel plates at 1200m but have to use a magnifyng glass to read sprue numbers.
I used to paint by hand, but even if it weren't for the eyesight, I find masking to take about ten seconds per wheel. Even multiplied by 24, it's a pretty fast job. Once the disc is made (by spinning a fairly circular piece of styrene on a Dremelagainst some wet/dry paper) it stays on each whell with a little saliva or water. And no overspray this way either. Whatever works best. On some vehicles I don't even paint it, but just muddy it up as in above post.
As for the foliage, it would probably not be incorrect-indeed cool-to have several branches stuck up underneath the fenders, and if using the smoke dicharhers, a few stuck in those as well.
lol
Well I'm 30. But hear what you're saying. Guess its all a matter of opinion and what you feel more comfortable with. A lot of guys out there like masking but I've always been more comfortable painting.
Hey whatever gets it done!
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 12:12 PM UTC
I do it this way:
Paint the hubs (airbrush or brush).
Let it dry. Spin the wheels slowly by mounting
them on a length of sprue held in a slow spinning
minidrill, not a Dremel! use some cheap stuff with
low torque. Paint with brush while the wheel is spinning.
/ Robin
Paint the hubs (airbrush or brush).
Let it dry. Spin the wheels slowly by mounting
them on a length of sprue held in a slow spinning
minidrill, not a Dremel! use some cheap stuff with
low torque. Paint with brush while the wheel is spinning.
/ Robin
gliderpilot
Joined: December 27, 2006
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 12:34 PM UTC
Your cent's looking good ive got one to build when i eventually finishing working some daft shifts that my boss decided to put me one (hence why i havnt been around for a while), hopefully the shifts will be stopping soon so i will be able to spend some time at the bench building. Ive bookmarked this page so i can use some of the advice when it comes to the wheels as i have been scratching my head about the best way to do them.
JohnByng
Joined: September 25, 2005
KitMaker: 36 posts
Armorama: 32 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 03:27 PM UTC
Bob, that's a great model.
Regards,
Roger
Regards,
Roger
NebLWeffah
Joined: October 13, 2004
KitMaker: 1,683 posts
Armorama: 1,248 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 07:06 PM UTC
Thanks, it was a fun build and I really enjoyed this model a lot. I've always wanted a Canadian Centurion so it's a bit of a wish come true.
The wheels are really no problem once you get started. Painting by hand with a brush or airbrush and masking, they really are a very accurate representation once they're finished and I'm sure you'll be pleased. The one problem I had with the running gear is the spring loaded suspension. The springs weren't strong enough to hold the weight of the finished model. I used Fruil tracks so the model ended up being quite heavy and the resulting sagging suspension caused the tank to sit really low with the bottom edge of the skirts way too close to the ground. The bottom of the skirts were down past the bottom of the hubs.... yikes! had to force and glue the bogies in place to gain some height and it corrected the sag. Watch out for this if you use side skirts and Fruils.
Bob
The wheels are really no problem once you get started. Painting by hand with a brush or airbrush and masking, they really are a very accurate representation once they're finished and I'm sure you'll be pleased. The one problem I had with the running gear is the spring loaded suspension. The springs weren't strong enough to hold the weight of the finished model. I used Fruil tracks so the model ended up being quite heavy and the resulting sagging suspension caused the tank to sit really low with the bottom edge of the skirts way too close to the ground. The bottom of the skirts were down past the bottom of the hubs.... yikes! had to force and glue the bogies in place to gain some height and it corrected the sag. Watch out for this if you use side skirts and Fruils.
Bob
AVRE165
Joined: December 31, 2002
KitMaker: 181 posts
Armorama: 145 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 03:18 AM UTC
hi mike
mike i have painted enough Centurions when i use to serv on them and even now i see tanks which have been resprayed every day.
quess what, they paint the wheels with a Spray gun, i use to do the same and occasionaly they got painted Green or black, i have even seen road wheels painted sand coulor along with the tracks.
so my advice is paint them and dry brush them with a grey black mix to bring out the grey color .
if you are finding the vinyl wheels not staying on, glue them with Humbrol old fanshoined Tube plastic clue
has far as greenery NO sorry i have looked at hundreds of picture sof Centurions in Vietnam and not seen one with any fitted.
take a look at my 169071 Dozer here http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g110/oztank/centurion%20models/
hope this helps
Ossie
mike i have painted enough Centurions when i use to serv on them and even now i see tanks which have been resprayed every day.
quess what, they paint the wheels with a Spray gun, i use to do the same and occasionaly they got painted Green or black, i have even seen road wheels painted sand coulor along with the tracks.
so my advice is paint them and dry brush them with a grey black mix to bring out the grey color .
if you are finding the vinyl wheels not staying on, glue them with Humbrol old fanshoined Tube plastic clue
has far as greenery NO sorry i have looked at hundreds of picture sof Centurions in Vietnam and not seen one with any fitted.
take a look at my 169071 Dozer here http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g110/oztank/centurion%20models/
hope this helps
Ossie
elph
Joined: November 13, 2005
KitMaker: 319 posts
Armorama: 266 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 08:50 AM UTC
I wasn't enthusiastic with the wheels at first, but I used a simple circle template that you can find in art or stationary shops for a cheap price. Just hold the tire under it and spray around with your airbrush. A couple of coats and presto, no problems. I glued them in place with some CA glue and I was really impressed with the result. A light dust coat will take the shine off a bit and now I'm a fan of vinyl tires . Here a couple of photos of my unfinished Cent . 
[img]http://new.photos.yahoo.com/elph_au/album/576460762401890675
[img]http://new.photos.yahoo.com/elph_au/album/576460762401890675
elph
Joined: November 13, 2005
KitMaker: 319 posts
Armorama: 266 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 09:13 AM UTC
cheese
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 106 posts
Armorama: 31 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 10:10 PM UTC
Thank you everyone. I used the circle template that I found at an Office Depot with over 30 circle diameters. Masked off to isolate the correct size and airbrushed the OD. Had originally painted the vinyl black so I really did not want to have to go back and forth retouching it.
This technique, tool, device, etc. worked perfectly.
Thank you all for your strategies and pointers. I did not try the spinning at low rpm for the wheels but I can see different things that the method can be used for (like pin striping sidewinders and AIM120s, etc.).
As far as an update, I will post some pics in a week or so. Having trouble finding Micro Sol in my LHS (plural). Found micro set but they all seem to have problems in realizing that both work together. The shipment for them cost a fortune so I am just gonna wait patiently for them to restock.
Also moving to a bigger apt. so it will be a few days before I can sit down and fininsh it up.
This technique, tool, device, etc. worked perfectly.
Thank you all for your strategies and pointers. I did not try the spinning at low rpm for the wheels but I can see different things that the method can be used for (like pin striping sidewinders and AIM120s, etc.).
As far as an update, I will post some pics in a week or so. Having trouble finding Micro Sol in my LHS (plural). Found micro set but they all seem to have problems in realizing that both work together. The shipment for them cost a fortune so I am just gonna wait patiently for them to restock.
Also moving to a bigger apt. so it will be a few days before I can sit down and fininsh it up.
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