I had an excellent idea for a helicopter diorama. I have already purchased the 1/35 Academy BlackHawk. The fast-ropes will support the heli to give the illusion of it flying. I got the idea from the movie BlackHawk down. I don't know what to use for the ropes, as they have to support the heli, and still look like ropes. What heli figure set should I use for pilots, and the guy on the rope? I was thinking of having just some circular blown sand for the base.


Enjoy!




I really want your input.
-Thanks

Eventually i plan on doing the same thing.
The way i'm going about it is similar to how i got my Huey to "fly" (can be found in a feature article here somewhere from years ago).
Personally i will use strong pieces of wire and insert them inside a black shoelace cover (if you rip apart a shoe lace, at least these ones i have here, there is a thin material cover around the actual shoelace, perfect for "rope skin").
A mate of mine who was in chalk 4 that day, i cant recall exactly, but he either told me the hawks dropped 4 or 2 fast ropes, couldve been 4, i'll ask him and get back to you, if its 4 youll have no worries supporting that helo this way.
Cheers

That's a cool idea with the shoelaces, thanks for the help!

This has come up a few times before as well.

First off, check the Rotary Wing forum at Aeroscale for a full listing of available figures. I recommend either the Academy OH-58D pilots or pilots and crew from Nemrod. There are no figures specifically sliding down a fastrope, you would have to convert some for that.

160th SOAR Blackhawks only use two fastropes, which creates a balance problem for the helo. It can be done, but would be difficult, especially at the connection points for the fastrope, which is on the cabin ceiling. They would need to be overly large and out of scale to support the weight.

Here are some pics of the same idea experimented by Avus.



He used a heavy wire and has it entering the underside of the helo, then he has an internal frame that supports it. The rod is still too big for a fastrope and doesn't attach at the fries rig which is on the ceiling of the cabin.

I recommend using a similar technique that I used on a customer's UH-1H Dustoff dio. I hid the support rod as a tree that the helo was flying near. The same could be done from a nearby building roof, antenna, or power pole.



More here.

Maybe posting over in the Rotary Wing forum will give you more results as well.

Good luck.

thanks gino, Iknew the rope would be the hardest thing. If the fast rope had some slack on the ground, that would work to balance it. so would a fast rope have some slack?

It would have some slack on the ground. The fastropes vary between 50 and 120 feet long. Depending on how high the helo is, will dictate how much slack you have on the ground. The issue is still one of balance. You will have only one balance point across the mid section of the helo. The balance from the front to the rear of the helo is the issue. You are still balancing an object on only two legs at one balance point; it will be like a see-saw.

It will be an interesting project if you do manage to pull it off.

Whether you do or do not end up building the project you HAVE to make sure you print off your drawing and stick it on your fridge...just joking.

This will be a neat project and you should be able to pull it off I think. However it will be time consuming. One of the posters stated that the ropes were attached to the cabin ceiling and that will help with the balance. My suggestion is to use two real sturdy, yet thin metal rods and make the rope around the rod or slide the rod into a shoelace. I am not sure what type of rope that the Rangers used that day but when I was a Marine we used a smooth, thick nylon rope. I would imagine the Rangers use the same type. You could secure the metal rods deep into your base and that would steady them.

Now this is just an idea that I came up with while pondering this. You may be able to use a thin sheet of styrene to help attach the rod to the cabin ceiling. I am thinking of a small thin washer type set up between the sheet of styrene and the roof of the cabin. That will make the helo attachment a little more sturdy and easier to balance. Just a thought.

The issue is the attachment to the FRIES (Fast Rope Insertion/Extraction System) Rig and making it look accurate. The rig has two poles (one each side) that extend out past the door of the helo. On the outboard side is a quick release latch that holds the rope. Here is how it actually attaches.



You will also have to scratch the FRIES since no one makes one. I made one for my MH-60L DAP.

If i use metal rod, I might be able to make it sturdy enough to support the helo. I'll also try to "lighten" the helo by removing inner-parts. do you have any more pics of the fast-rope system?

-thanks for the help

Good luck on it. I don't think the issue will be the weight, but the Fast Rope attachment points and balance of the helo.

I still think a better way would be with some type of prop rod embedded in the tail, either a clear acrylic rod or one disguised as a pole, antenna, or something coming off a rooftop. The buildings would be very realistic as well since the Rangers were dropped at intersections that day.

This is kind of the idea for the clear rod. Blackhawk Down Dio "Leaders, Operators, and the Stalkers" by Pete "Epi" Becerra:



More here.

Let us know how it goes.

cool pics, but I'm gonna go through with my original idea with the fast-ropes

I found the website that makes the FRIES rope. it has dimensions

link here

http://www.columbianrope.com/Heli-VacFastRope2.htm

I didn't mean don't use the fast ropes, just don't use them to support the helo. Either way, good luck with it.

Two suggestions if I may:

- what about using a scenic or sky backdrop on a sheet of plywood (for example) and running support rods to it? Granted it will cut down on the viewing area but carefully thought out you could have the helo supported mid-flight and use any kind of rope you want, tight or slack.

- have the blades as clear discs, airbrushed to simulate rotor spin (use acrylic with a flat sheen, not gloss). Done well it looks convincing and can add some action and drama to a build.

That's a cool idea with the rotors, I remember seeing that tutorial in FSM for plane props. as for the background, a I might use a clear acryliuc like this rteally cool one:


it's one of the coolest dios I've ever seen

Hi William

I've been following this post with interest. This will be a real cool dio if / when you get it done. Just a note, I have a copy of that FSM that has the "prop article" in it. If you need it just let me know, and I'll send it along. Good luck with this project. Keep trying different tech, and ideas, something will work.
Good Luck
Harry

William, great pic. I like that idea even better.

Harry, which FSM issue was the rotor article in?

okay, completely new idea! It will be a diorama using the slanted acrylic sheet. I will depict Super Six Four going down, in an awkward position, and with RPG damage to the tail.

Now that would be cool! I was actually planning on doing on of the helo already crashed with the two Delta Force snipers rescuing Durant. Hope yours turns out great!

Just an idea, but why not have it in flight and an RPG headed for the tail??

Gary

yay! this is a cool idea

my suggestions:
1.)use multiple fast ropes (was there more than 2 in the movie) - insert thin metal wires in side to support the chopper...make sure to bend the ropes a bit to show some slack so it will look more natural
2.)in the movie, a guy fell off the chopper - that would be cool to add
3.)maybe you could exagerate the dust cloud? this might look cool - it's definitely easier to make a convincing thick dust cloud than thin wispy ones

good luck

Whether the movie used more than 2 on the choppers doesn't really matter. If you want it accurate, the 160th SOAR only uses 2 fast ropes, one on each side, as I posted above.

Actually the dust clouds kicked up were very thick, so no worry about exagerating. I just finished reading the book Black Hawk DOwn by Mark Bowden (for the third time). There are accounts that the pilots couldnt really see much once they got low. Some of the pilots recalled that if the timing had been off between birds, or someone had been in the wrong place, there probably would have been a crash due to the low visibility.

Also, when the CSAR team went in, the last two people on the ropes (the Air Force PJ's), never knew how close they came to death. The bird was hit while they were on the ropes, and started pulling away. Luckily the pilot pulled back down long enough for them to finish their descent. They didnt know until afterwords, because they didnt see the ground until they hit it.

There is a third accound, I believe on a little bird inserting Delta operators. The team leader thought they were up high enough to need their zip lines (I think it was zip lines). The team was surprised to find, after a very short insertion, that they were no more than 4 or 6 feet off the ground.