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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
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tank deployment in Iraq
blaster76
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Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 03:20 AM UTC
I know they've been filtering divisions in out of Iraq over the past few years. Do the units exit with their heavy equipment....tanks and PC's or do they leave those for the next unit. Would save a lot of money if they did. I know when we did Reforger exercises in the late 70's there was a stockpile of M60 series (a1 rises and what have yous) available for them.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 04:23 AM UTC
Depends. Some units are leaveing them, some are taking them back . It depends on the state of the equipment.
DM1975
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Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 07:55 AM UTC
During the invasion we drew bran new ODS Bradleys to use and left our tracks in Fort Riley. We left the ODS's in country. When we went back in OIF III we brought our old Bradleys which we gutted the troop seats out of in Kuwait and fitted benches in like the ODS. While we were there we lost several Bradleys (3 out of 4 in my platoon alone) We were refitted with tracks that were in country. Some older and some ODS Brads. I believe we left them there but not sure. Some might have came back. I was a dismount so I did not have anything to do with the tracks besides for ride in them and help change track some times.
USArmy2534
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Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 08:51 AM UTC
Gino is right. It really depends on the condition of the equipment. While it is cheaper to keep them in country and rotate the unit out, it also is very hard on the equipment. They tend to reach their "life-expectancy" quicker. At that point, they are taken off the line, sent back for reset. They are essentially gutted and rebuilt to a zero-mile condition and then resent wherever they are needed. I know there are specific programs for M1A1 AIMs and for Strykers and a program to send armored humvees to be uparmored, though I'm sure most vehicles have such programs.

Jeff
blaster76
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Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 01:04 AM UTC
That is exactly what I figured was happening. So, as to the markings and which unit uses which variation of Abrams, that is all catch as catch can. So all the guys that are teling you that x unit uses "B" version and Y unit uses"A" version....its nice to read your books, once again reality is different. So guys if you have an M1a1 AIM or M1a1 SEP or whatever, you really don't know for sure that xyz unit actually is using it in Iraq. It may be home in Kanas or Georgia or Texas. SO MODEL ON DUDES !!!! and don't worry about what anyone tells you . They don't know where every tank or what variety is being used by whom over there.
DM1975
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Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 01:26 AM UTC
Well put. It is very much a toss up on things like that. Like I said, we had a variity of tracks and most were modified. I have the luck of having photos of the exact track over there that I want to build right now so no problems there for me.
USArmy2534
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Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 04:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That is exactly what I figured was happening. So, as to the markings and which unit uses which variation of Abrams, that is all catch as catch can. So all the guys that are teling you that x unit uses "B" version and Y unit uses"A" version....its nice to read your books, once again reality is different. So guys if you have an M1a1 AIM or M1a1 SEP or whatever, you really don't know for sure that xyz unit actually is using it in Iraq. It may be home in Kanas or Georgia or Texas. SO MODEL ON DUDES !!!! and don't worry about what anyone tells you . They don't know where every tank or what variety is being used by whom over there.



In the end, that is what photos are for. You may not know if it is current, but at the time of the photo, not only can you say that it was there, but you can represent exactly how it was configured. Tanks are easier to predict. For logistical reasons, certain tanks will only go to certain divisions. Now with the BGE Combat Teams coming online as opposed to division-sized units, I don't know, but I bet deciding where what goes is more selective. I have this problem when I model humvees, because they are updated much more frequently.

Jeff
HeavyArty
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Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 05:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

So guys if you have an M1a1 AIM or M1a1 SEP or whatever, you really don't know for sure that xyz unit actually is using it in Iraq. It may be home in Kanas or Georgia or Texas. SO MODEL ON DUDES !!!! and don't worry about what anyone tells you . They don't know where every tank or what variety is being used by whom over there.



Not necessarily true. For common items such as HMMWVs and trucks that may be true. For Abrams and even Bradleys, it isn't the case. The reason is training. An M1A2 SEP crew has to train differently than a standard M1A1 crew due to differences in maintenance and the fire control system. Units that have SEPs, like 4ID are taking their SEPs. The same is true for Bradleys. Units that have M2A3s are taking them as well.


Quoted Text

if you have an M1a1 AIM or M1a1 SEP or whatever



By the way, it is an M1A2 SEP, not an M1A1 SEP.
badger66
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Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 06:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

So guys if you have an M1a1 AIM or M1a1 SEP or whatever, you really don't know for sure that xyz unit actually is using it in Iraq. It may be home in Kanas or Georgia or Texas. SO MODEL ON DUDES !!!! and don't worry about what anyone tells you . They don't know where every tank or what variety is being used by whom over there.



Not necessarily true. For common items such as HMMWVs and trucks that may be true. For Abrams and even Bradleys, it isn't the case. The reason is training. An M1A2 SEP crew has to train differently than a standard M1A1 crew due to differences in maintenance and the fire control system. Units that have SEPs, like 4ID are taking their SEPs. The same is true for Bradleys. Units that have M2A3s are taking them as well.


Quoted Text

if you have an M1a1 AIM or M1a1 SEP or whatever



By the way, it is an M1A2 SEP, not an M1A1 SEP.



I agree with Gino as I look out my office window most of the LBE (left behind equipment )for 1CD was taken over by 4thID M1A2SEPs M88s Brads they train on it tunr it in before deployment and then the Cav signs for it when they return and so on. As far as the 3rd ACR they seem to be taking everything wiht them when they go. So you may be able to Model on but like he said it depends on equipment type.
DM1975
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Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 06:58 PM UTC
I agree with that. It is always best to do research. Again, when you start losing vehicles you have to start drawing from the stock that is over there so you do see a mixmatch of equepment with certain units. I know what my Brigade had, but I would not want to guess about others.
210cav
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2007 - 02:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I know when we did Reforger exercises in the late 70's there was a stockpile of M60 series (a1 rises and what have yous) available for them.



Ah, REFORGER. I am starting to get hives just thinking about it. I would rather walk barefoot over broken glass than go on another of those butt kicking exercises. The lazy cruds from CEGE made for a long turn-in. I think I went on six of them (four from the States and two in Europe). I know the manufacturer did not issue the tanks in as good a condition as when we turned them back....I am better now.
DJ
badger66
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2007 - 02:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I know when we did Reforger exercises in the late 70's there was a stockpile of M60 series (a1 rises and what have yous) available for them.



Ah, REFORGER. I am starting to get hives just thinking about it. I would rather walk barefoot over broken glass than go on another of those butt kicking exercises. The lazy cruds from CEGE made for a long turn-in. I think I went on six of them (four from the States and two in Europe). I know the manufacturer did not issue the tanks in as good a condition as when we turned them back....I am better now.
DJ



Boy those sure were a long time ago
210cav
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2007 - 03:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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I know when we did Reforger exercises in the late 70's there was a stockpile of M60 series (a1 rises and what have yous) available for them.



Ah, REFORGER. I am starting to get hives just thinking about it. I would rather walk barefoot over broken glass than go on another of those butt kicking exercises. The lazy cruds from CEGE made for a long turn-in. I think I went on six of them (four from the States and two in Europe). I know the manufacturer did not issue the tanks in as good a condition as when we turned them back....I am better now.
DJ



Boy those sure were a long time ago



I recall my last one with the 3rd ACR out of Fort Bliss in 1984. They changed over to Atlantic Resolve by 1993 which was a waste of time CPX.
DJ
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2007 - 03:25 AM UTC
I did several of the last ones including the biggest in 1988 and the Nerf Ball War in January 1990. That one was designed by some staff officers who were into those board style war games.
210cav
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2007 - 05:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I did several of the last ones including the biggest in 1988 and the Nerf Ball War in January 1990. That one was designed by some staff officers who were into those board style war games.



Yes, another of the great "we will save money" exercises. Another total waste of time and money. And, mighty damn boring. Some ding dong manuvering a tank company along a ridge line to run a seam between two units...unrealistic.
blaster76
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2007 - 05:39 AM UTC
I did three in the late 70's . I was always a judge, so I ran around in a jeep with a doghouse trailer throwing smoke grenades and the always fun flash -bangers. It seemed to rain a lot when we did it, so it ws pretty miserable. The worst one was a winter one we did in2 feet of snow. No one would move for days so I sa t in my jeep and wrapped up in blankets to survive.
210cav
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2007 - 07:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I did three in the late 70's . I was always a judge, so I ran around in a jeep with a doghouse trailer throwing smoke grenades and the always fun flash -bangers. It seemed to rain a lot when we did it, so it ws pretty miserable. The worst one was a winter one we did in2 feet of snow. No one would move for days so I sa t in my jeep and wrapped up in blankets to survive.



You were not a judge...you were a "controller." Glory days, glory days.
badger66
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2007 - 08:04 AM UTC
my we have gotten off track on this thread
SFraser
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2007 - 09:50 AM UTC
As far as I know they leave their heavy armour behind for the next armoured unit to use. Well that's how the Brits do it. In Bosnia we took our Warriors back with us as our replacement battalion was the Duke of Wellington Regiment who had Saxons.
Scott
210cav
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2007 - 10:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

my we have gotten off track on this thread



Tis the only refuge Old Men have after their wives say "I have heard that story before."

DJ
sgtreef
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2007 - 10:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I did three in the late 70's . I was always a judge, so I ran around in a jeep with a doghouse trailer throwing smoke grenades and the always fun flash -bangers. It seemed to rain a lot when we did it, so it ws pretty miserable. The worst one was a winter one we did in2 feet of snow. No one would move for days so I sa t in my jeep and wrapped up in blankets to survive.




Yes always raining when we did ours back in the 70's

And you dudes with the White strips around the hat

I still have a reforger Decal from the days
Removed by original poster on 06/02/07 - 18:04:03 (GMT).
badger66
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Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 02:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

my we have gotten off track on this thread



Tis the only refuge Old Men have after their wives say "I have heard that story before."

DJ

Touche!
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