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TigerB Zimmerit kit 6303
CaptainA
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
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Posted: Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 07:43 AM UTC
This will help me out when I finally pull mine out of the stash closet. I appreciate your photographs. I can never seem to get those close-ups right.
H_Ackermans
Joined: July 11, 2006
KitMaker: 2,229 posts
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Posted: Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 10:29 AM UTC
Don't forget to add the wire to the bolts on the gun's Topfblende.
I'm going to follow this one, although apart from the Zimm, I expect this to be identical to the other Tiger-B's by DML.
I'm going to follow this one, although apart from the Zimm, I expect this to be identical to the other Tiger-B's by DML.
cach7
Joined: October 13, 2002
KitMaker: 444 posts
Armorama: 439 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 03:05 PM UTC
Is it corret to have zim under the side skirts? 
Catch-22
Joined: January 10, 2007
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 345 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 09:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Is it corret to have zim under the side skirts?
yes - skirts were added after.
Also camo would be applied after the skirts were fixed, so when the skirts came off, no camo would be seen underneath.... until the maintenance crew touched-up the camo..... if they had time! Look carefully at this one - camo touched-up under where the skirts were.
Catch-22
Joined: January 10, 2007
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 345 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 09:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Don't forget to add the wire to the bolts on the gun's Topfblende.
what, this tiny wire on the front? Looks quite thin!
Quoted Text
I'm going to follow this one, although apart from the Zimm, I expect this to be identical to the other Tiger-B's by DML.
oh no!!! Herbert is going to spot all my mistakes....
I'm guessing I'm going to make 3 mistakes. Anyone want to take that bet?
Kelley
Joined: November 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,966 posts
Armorama: 1,635 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2007 - 01:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Also camo would be applied after the skirts were fixed, so when the skirts came off, no camo would be seen underneath.... until the maintenance crew touched-up the camo..... if they had time! Look carefully at this one - camo touched-up under where the skirts were.
Not always necessarily true, there is a very well known series of photos of a Tiger II that is having the camo scheme painted on and the skirts have been removed. In the case of those built later without zim, with the factory applied camo paint, the scheme was applied under the skirts as well. If you are building a specific tank then I'd try to find pics of it to see what the case is.
Cheers,
Mike
Catch-22
Joined: January 10, 2007
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 345 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2007 - 04:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Also camo would be applied after the skirts were fixed, so when the skirts came off, no camo would be seen underneath.... until the maintenance crew touched-up the camo..... if they had time! Look carefully at this one - camo touched-up under where the skirts were.
Not always necessarily true, there is a very well known series of photos of a Tiger II that is having the camo scheme painted on and the skirts have been removed.
as we have seen many times Mike, nothing is always necessarily true.
I'll phrase it differently.........The tank would have left the factory with no camo, zimmerit under the side-skirts, no zimmerit on the side-skirts, and then once in the field, it would have been up to the commander/maintenance-crew to decide whether or not to take off the side-skirts before adding any camo, and then maybe put the side-skirts back on before camo-ing them as well.
I thought I'd go with keeping it simple.
Anything can happen to a tank once it is out in the field.Quoted Text
In the case of those built later without zim, with the factory applied camo paint, the scheme was applied under the skirts as well. If you are building a specific tank then I'd try to find pics of it to see what the case is.
Cheers,
Mike
As the question was about zimmerit examples, I didn't mention factory painting of camo as it is not relevant. I'm not trying to impart the sum knowledge of the TigerB here, just info on the build of this particular model.
Catch-22
Joined: January 10, 2007
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 345 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2007 - 04:32 AM UTC
and to complicate matters further, if the tank was transported by rail, they'd have had to take the side-skirts off anyway 
as well as fitting the transport tracks - did they stack the skirts up next to the combat tracks?
oh hang-on - I'm digressing................... back to the build
as well as fitting the transport tracks - did they stack the skirts up next to the combat tracks?oh hang-on - I'm digressing................... back to the build
Jamesite
Joined: December 05, 2006
KitMaker: 2,208 posts
Armorama: 2,152 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2007 - 04:50 AM UTC
Great work so far catch 22, love the 3 can trick, didn't know Stella had another use!
I'd ike to build this in the future so will keep an eye on your excellent thread.
any plans to damage the zimmerit? If so how? - I think thats the big question with these kits.
I think Mike is saying that factory applied camo could have been applied above and below the skirts, and when removed, the underlying camouflage would be cleaner as seen in the pic. Also its possible the crew 'touched up' the camo over the skirts, and when the skirts were lost the discrepancy was then exposed.
I guess what i'm trying to say is that there are several possible explanations!
Keep up the good work,
James
I'd ike to build this in the future so will keep an eye on your excellent thread.
any plans to damage the zimmerit? If so how? - I think thats the big question with these kits.
I think Mike is saying that factory applied camo could have been applied above and below the skirts, and when removed, the underlying camouflage would be cleaner as seen in the pic. Also its possible the crew 'touched up' the camo over the skirts, and when the skirts were lost the discrepancy was then exposed.
I guess what i'm trying to say is that there are several possible explanations!
Keep up the good work,
James
Catch-22
Joined: January 10, 2007
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 345 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2007 - 05:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Great work so far catch 22, love the 3 can trick, didn't know Stella had another use!
I'd ike to build this in the future so will keep an eye on your excellent thread.
any plans to damage the zimmerit? If so how? - I think thats the big question with these kits.
James
thanks James. I think Steve (blaster76) said it first - the zimmerit is a bit too 'thick' in an ideal world, but this is a very good rendition of zimmerit on a kit, so I might just leave it undamaged.
I personally like to 'damage' my models - even my Smart Panther-G LSW (so only out in the field for a month or so at most) has a few dents.
OK I could trim some sections of zimmerit off, but I'm not sure how effective this will be with the zimmerit being 'thick' to start with. i.e. will the zimmerit stand-out too proud against any bare-patches for realism?
You can't easily lightly sand it down to make it less 'thick', because you'll just end up with wide/flat sections in the zimmerit pattern, where they should be small and narrow, peaky if you like.
I'll probably chicken-out on doing damage in the zimmerit as I said - so I'm tempted to base it on this one
Catch-22
Joined: January 10, 2007
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 345 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2007 - 11:20 AM UTC
what's wrong with this picture? 
Obviously a simple thing to put right, but....
anyway..... I've had a go at the turret side/front join. It's not great, but it's better. I used a small triangular-cross-section-shaped file.
before
after
Oh and I had to re-bend the headlight 'wire' (electric supply) that DML kindly provide. It was at the base of the wire, where it joins the lamp. It just needed shortening slightly.
Obviously a simple thing to put right, but....anyway..... I've had a go at the turret side/front join. It's not great, but it's better. I used a small triangular-cross-section-shaped file.
before
after
Oh and I had to re-bend the headlight 'wire' (electric supply) that DML kindly provide. It was at the base of the wire, where it joins the lamp. It just needed shortening slightly.
kevinb120
Joined: May 09, 2006
KitMaker: 1,349 posts
Armorama: 1,267 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2007 - 11:42 AM UTC
For giggles, here is the Atak replacement turret for the Porsche Tiger II:
H_Ackermans
Joined: July 11, 2006
KitMaker: 2,229 posts
Armorama: 2,221 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2007 - 11:14 PM UTC
That tiny wire worked as a threadlock for the bolts.
I added it using stretched sprue. A bit of fidling, but some liquid glue does wonders.
And don't worry, I'll just give hints by pointing my big indexfinger on any and all mistakes!
Should all work out fine, seeing your previous work.
Now, if I can just get the room ready, it's going way toooo slow.
I added it using stretched sprue. A bit of fidling, but some liquid glue does wonders.
And don't worry, I'll just give hints by pointing my big indexfinger on any and all mistakes!
Should all work out fine, seeing your previous work.
Now, if I can just get the room ready, it's going way toooo slow.
Catch-22
Joined: January 10, 2007
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 345 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 10:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
That tiny wire worked as a threadlock for the bolts.
I added it using stretched sprue. A bit of fidling, but some liquid glue does wonders.
I think DML must have added it to this model...
Quoted Text
Now, if I can just get the room ready, it's going way toooo slow.
ha - you think you have problems! This is what 'my' room looks like at the moment - roof isn't due to start for 10 days!
cach7
Joined: October 13, 2002
KitMaker: 444 posts
Armorama: 439 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 11:06 AM UTC
Catch, what if you wanted to have damaged zim on this. What would you do? Has anybody seen the Porsche version in stores? I checked Sprue Brothers and GM.co and nothing.
Has anybody seen the Porsche version in stores? I checked Sprue Brothers and GM.co and nothing.Catch-22
Joined: January 10, 2007
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 345 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 09:13 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Catch, what if you wanted to have damaged zim on this. What would you do?
I guess you just sand a section down, probably use a knife to get a good 'stepped' edge up against where you are leaving the zimmerit.
I'm sure someone will have done it by now. Use those 'seach engines'!
Quoted Text
Has anybody seen the Porsche version in stores? I checked Sprue Brothers and GM.co and nothing.
it's only just been released - you'll have to wait a few weeks.
H_Ackermans
Joined: July 11, 2006
KitMaker: 2,229 posts
Armorama: 2,221 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 04:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThat tiny wire worked as a threadlock for the bolts.
I added it using stretched sprue. A bit of fidling, but some liquid glue does wonders.
I think DML must have added it to this model...Quoted Text
Now, if I can just get the room ready, it's going way toooo slow.
ha - you think you have problems! This is what 'my' room looks like at the moment - roof isn't due to start for 10 days!
Great to see DML added the wire, but it's a bit on the thick side.
Come to think of it, I used the Armorscale mantlet, perhaps it was already there on my kit.
Oh yeah, your room looks a little bit more work-involved.
About damaged Zimmerit areas, a solution that might work well but is a tad complex is to cut out a section of the hull/turret, replace it with plastic card and then blend in the edges with some putty Zimmerit.
That way, you won't damage the kit zimmerit, and you can keep it scale thick.
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 05:23 AM UTC
I am really benefitting from your build so far as I am now working on the same kit.Please in the future detail your track assembly and placement procedure,and how to get those track hangers attached to the turret.
thanks for all you info
thanks for all you info
Catch-22
Joined: January 10, 2007
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 345 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 10:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I am really benefitting from your build so far as I am now working on the same kit.Please in the future detail your track assembly and placement procedure,and how to get those track hangers attached to the turret.
thanks for all you info
oh thanks - nice easy ones for me then
Onto the wheels and tracks then (photos to follow).
I'm going to spell everything out for any newcomers, so forgive me when I'm teaching you to suck eggs
WHEELS
1) in this kit, when putting the two pairs of wheels together, always put the glue onto the G2/G3 wheel, and push the G4 onto these. This way, no glue can get onto the face of any surface.
I always line up the sprue attachment points on each wheel, so that I can hide this area (by rotating the wheel-pair) on the finished model (if all signs of the attachment to the sprue have not been perfectly removed)
2) I usually take one wheel of the wheel-pair off the sprue, clean it up, and then glue it onto the other wheel still on the sprue. Then I can paint both sides of the wheels easily (already glued together), and then stack up the sprues for drying. Once I am happy with the wheels, I cut them off the sprues and have just two 'cuts' each to cleanup.
It's up to you if you want to touch these up by hand, or rely on weathering to finish the job for you.
TRACKS
3) magic tracks! Well they are quite magical in this kit, but there are still IIRC 2 circles to clean off the larger track link, and three circles to clean off the smaller track link.
Now I'm afraid I'm NOT going to do this for all the links, but I am for the pairs than I may put on the turret.
4) building the track sections. I do this in six (6) stages, and I'll wait until I've got the photos before I even try to explain, because 'a picture paints a thousand words'.
5) track hangers. Well I'm going to have two different stabs at this.
Using a track 'pair', mark onto the turret where the hangers will go. THEN 'dig' partially through the zimmerit at these three points, and either
a) attach the hangers without any track-links.... they should be in the correct places
b) glue the hangers to the rear of a track 'pair', then glue this to the turret.
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 06:11 AM UTC
Thanks again-you da man under tracks I was thinking about 3-B also I will probably try that
Catch-22
Joined: January 10, 2007
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 345 posts
Posted: Friday, November 09, 2007 - 06:31 AM UTC
some photos for the above post.
blurred, and artificial light, but you get the general idea
TRACKS
before and after clean-up
now I'm going for 14 track-pairs along the bottom, and 3 track-pairs up to the drive wheel.
So make a 14 (this has a tail-up added as well)
and then glue it to a 3
then to get the track sag, get some old bits of sprue, and make yourself a curve.
Then make a section of track ON this curve.
NEXT STEPS
I'll glue the links that go around the drive wheel one at a time, but stop at a point where I can still remove the drive wheel. Then I'll decide how I want the idler to sit, and put the rest of the links in (to make 46 IIRC pairs in total) - photos will explain all.
I'll be rather busy on other things this w/e so until next week sometime.
blurred, and artificial light, but you get the general idea
TRACKS
before and after clean-up
now I'm going for 14 track-pairs along the bottom, and 3 track-pairs up to the drive wheel.
So make a 14 (this has a tail-up added as well)
and then glue it to a 3
then to get the track sag, get some old bits of sprue, and make yourself a curve.
Then make a section of track ON this curve.
NEXT STEPS
I'll glue the links that go around the drive wheel one at a time, but stop at a point where I can still remove the drive wheel. Then I'll decide how I want the idler to sit, and put the rest of the links in (to make 46 IIRC pairs in total) - photos will explain all.
I'll be rather busy on other things this w/e so until next week sometime.
Catch-22
Joined: January 10, 2007
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 345 posts
Posted: Friday, November 09, 2007 - 11:40 AM UTC
I found a bit more time!
**edit - none of the wheels or drive sprockets are glued yet, just pushed-on, and only the track-links are glued to one another.
a few more photos of the 14+3 and the curved section
I decided on 4 track-pairs made-up on the drive sprockets
then once these had partially dried, I glued them to the 14+3 sections.
you can see the 'tightness' at the front of the right-hand-track is slightly less than the left-hand.
**edit - none of the wheels or drive sprockets are glued yet, just pushed-on, and only the track-links are glued to one another.
a few more photos of the 14+3 and the curved section
I decided on 4 track-pairs made-up on the drive sprockets
then once these had partially dried, I glued them to the 14+3 sections.
you can see the 'tightness' at the front of the right-hand-track is slightly less than the left-hand.
Removed by original poster on 11/11/07 - 20:21:27 (GMT).
Catch-22
Joined: January 10, 2007
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 345 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 02:25 AM UTC
...and when this is dry, glue the curved section to the others, and put in back onto the tank.
There is enough flexibility to 'roll' the drive sprocket into the track, and to slide the tracks (with drive-sprocket in place) onto the wheels and place the drive sprocket on it's locating pin.
I've also made up a 3-pair link section, and wrapped them around the idler before the glue had set.
I find these tracks easier to assemble flat, and then 'bend' them.
There is enough flexibility to 'roll' the drive sprocket into the track, and to slide the tracks (with drive-sprocket in place) onto the wheels and place the drive sprocket on it's locating pin.
I've also made up a 3-pair link section, and wrapped them around the idler before the glue had set.
I find these tracks easier to assemble flat, and then 'bend' them.
H_Ackermans
Joined: July 11, 2006
KitMaker: 2,229 posts
Armorama: 2,221 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 05:52 AM UTC
Looking good.
Are you going to use any PE-sets?
Are you going to use any PE-sets?
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