Reading the "KV2 colours" thread got me a-wonderin':
To what extent are the slogans supplied as decals with kits accurate?
Which ones are good (grammatically I mean) - and which ones are stinkers?
Maybe the Russian speakers can help out here? Because calling on my one year of studying Russian back in 1981 / 1982, I can still read the Cyrillic alphabet and pronounce the words - but for the most part I haven't the foggiest clue what they mean, whether the slogans are gramatically correct - or even whether some dude at Trumpeter or Tamiya hasn't just strung together a random string of Russian characters in the hope that no-one will notice (a trick not completely unknown in Hollywood's movie industry).
So I'm sure I speak for others as well when I say that it'd be good to know which kit-supplied slogans are okay to use, and which would have a Russian speaker laughing his ass off.
- Steve
Яusso-Soviэt Forum
Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Jacques Duquette
Patriotic slogans on WWII Russian armour
Kuno-Von-Dodenburg
Joined: February 20, 2007
KitMaker: 1,453 posts
Armorama: 1,319 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 11:32 PM UTC
Drader
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 2,798 posts
Posted: Friday, April 18, 2008 - 12:00 AM UTC
Most are pretty reasonable (AFAIK) grammatically, since they're copied from photos, not that I'm a Russian reader at more than the most superficial level. But they're not always applied to the correct version of the tank.
One notoriously bogus example is, however, in the Tamiya KV-2 - instead of the usual Russian word 'Za' (for) they actually spell the word in English as F-O-R in Cyrillic letters
David
One notoriously bogus example is, however, in the Tamiya KV-2 - instead of the usual Russian word 'Za' (for) they actually spell the word in English as F-O-R in Cyrillic letters
David
BorisS
Joined: October 07, 2007
KitMaker: 144 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Friday, April 18, 2008 - 01:05 AM UTC
Well I can't really name specific manufacturers, but if you give me a picture I can tell you if it's right or not.
Most of the builds I see here have correct slogans. They may sound kinda dumb at times, but then again that's what you would expect from uneducated peasants forced to be patriotic. Every once in a while I spot a grammatical error but that's normally pointed out by other members.
Most of the builds I see here have correct slogans. They may sound kinda dumb at times, but then again that's what you would expect from uneducated peasants forced to be patriotic. Every once in a while I spot a grammatical error but that's normally pointed out by other members.
Removed by original poster on 04/18/08 - 12:30:06 (GMT).
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Friday, April 18, 2008 - 05:18 AM UTC
I have read in these forums somewhere that KV2's never ever had slogons on them.
Aleksey_Gilevskiy
Joined: July 02, 2007
KitMaker: 125 posts
Armorama: 99 posts
Posted: Friday, April 18, 2008 - 07:03 AM UTC
Well, show me decals and I`ll say you if they`re incorrect 
TheUman
Joined: September 22, 2006
KitMaker: 67 posts
Armorama: 47 posts
Posted: Friday, April 18, 2008 - 07:16 AM UTC
The One's I've seen seem to be okay. Do you have images of the ones you are questioning?
Most common say Za rodinu or Za stalina (for country, for stalin) Iv'e seen some that have the unit's honorific title on it.
Most common say Za rodinu or Za stalina (for country, for stalin) Iv'e seen some that have the unit's honorific title on it.
bill_c
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
Armorama: 8,109 posts
Posted: Friday, April 18, 2008 - 07:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
They may sound kinda dumb at times, but then again that's what you would expect from uneducated peasants forced to be patriotic.
Mmmm, not so sure I'd agree with that.
For one thing, Russians in general have a much higher regard for the literary arts than Americans. And following the great purges of the 1930s, the Soviet Army had a hodge-podge of leadership, not all of it military in nature. A college roommate of mine's father was made an officer though he was a poet by inclination and training! Needless to say, he was captured early on, ended up in Germany as a POW and married my mate's mother despite the fact he spoke no German and she spoke no Russian!
Wars aren't always about heroes and heroism....
october
Joined: May 03, 2003
KitMaker: 140 posts
Armorama: 80 posts
Posted: Friday, April 18, 2008 - 09:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Well I can't really name specific manufacturers, but if you give me a picture I can tell you if it's right or not.
Most of the builds I see here have correct slogans. They may sound kinda dumb at times, but then again that's what you would expect from uneducated peasants forced to be patriotic. Every once in a while I spot a grammatical error but that's normally pointed out by other members.
I would have imagine that some one who could spot grammatical errors in Russian might have paid more heed to the historical literature based on actual research (Beevor,Overy,Erikson) which refers to the great and genuine courage, poetic literacy and patriotism of the ordinary Soviet people faced with a genocidal war.
The image of the uneducated peasants forced into misplaced dumb patriotism is by enlarge the sad stereotypical legacy of Nazi propaganda.
October
Finch
Joined: August 03, 2005
KitMaker: 411 posts
Armorama: 273 posts
Posted: Friday, April 18, 2008 - 10:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Well I can't really name specific manufacturers, but if you give me a picture I can tell you if it's right or not.
Most of the builds I see here have correct slogans. They may sound kinda dumb at times, but then again that's what you would expect from uneducated peasants forced to be patriotic. Every once in a while I spot a grammatical error but that's normally pointed out by other members.
You never know, do you....At AMPS I used a photo in a slideshow of a guy holding up two signs. One said "Go USA!" and the other said "Get a brain, morans!" The idiot couldn't spell 'morons' but he could call other people that. Maybe we just sterotype a bit too much sometimes.
Armies expand rapidly in wartime and units are filled with folks of all possible educational levels. Personally I have a very hard time believing anyone would dare paint an un-approved slogan on a Red Army vehicle. I suspect the unit commander or local politruk had to OK it first.
BorisS
Joined: October 07, 2007
KitMaker: 144 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Friday, April 18, 2008 - 03:27 PM UTC
My apologies, I take back what I said about uneducated. Even at the time they were educated, literacy wise at least. My first and second grade in school in Russia really surpassed what they taught me up until 6th grade here in NY.
By it sounding dumb I meant it in the way that alot of it had so much of the Communist/Stalinist stuff in it that it seems kinda silly and dumb for me. I did not mean it grammar wise.
Once again I apologize for taking this off-topic. Please continue
By it sounding dumb I meant it in the way that alot of it had so much of the Communist/Stalinist stuff in it that it seems kinda silly and dumb for me. I did not mean it grammar wise.
Once again I apologize for taking this off-topic. Please continue
Aleksey_Gilevskiy
Joined: July 02, 2007
KitMaker: 125 posts
Armorama: 99 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 03:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
My apologies, I take back what I said about uneducated. Even at the time they were educated, literacy wise at least. My first and second grade in school in Russia really surpassed what they taught me up until 6th grade here in NY.
By it sounding dumb I meant it in the way that alot of it had so much of the Communist/Stalinist stuff in it that it seems kinda silly and dumb for me. I did not mean it grammar wise.
Once again I apologize for taking this off-topic. Please continue
Did you study in Russia or in Russian school??
BorisS
Joined: October 07, 2007
KitMaker: 144 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 03:52 AM UTC
I was born in Russia and lived there for 9 years. Went to school up until halfway through second grade before we moved to NY
Chas78_wa1
Joined: March 29, 2008
KitMaker: 21 posts
Armorama: 17 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 04:09 AM UTC
Well, this thread may or may not be directed at my KV2 but I've made a decision. I've removed the offending patriotic logos and re-weathered the turret. I'll supply pics later today.
Charlie
Charlie
Kuno-Von-Dodenburg
Joined: February 20, 2007
KitMaker: 1,453 posts
Armorama: 1,319 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 04:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Well, this thread may or may not be directed at my KV2 but I've made a decision. I've removed the offending patriotic logos and re-weathered the turret. I'll supply pics later today.
Charlie
The thread was "inspired by" your build, Charlie - not "directed at" it!
Good call on removing the slogans though - according to the Russian armour gurus here, there's no photograhic evidence of ANY KV2s having sported slogans. This was something that I too was unaware of until I'd been stalking these hallowed forums awhile (you really do learn a lot here).
- Steve
Aleksey_Gilevskiy
Joined: July 02, 2007
KitMaker: 125 posts
Armorama: 99 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 10:28 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I was born in Russia and lived there for 9 years. Went to school up until halfway through second grade before we moved to NY
So, do you speak russian? In which city have you lived?
Chas78_wa1
Joined: March 29, 2008
KitMaker: 21 posts
Armorama: 17 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 03:30 AM UTC
This is interesting...So, the people at trumpeter are not researching their kits? They just take russian lettering, make up a decal and toss it in the box? 
In addition, I've suddenly thought of a better way to remove those logos...
Charlie
In addition, I've suddenly thought of a better way to remove those logos... Charlie
404NotFound
Joined: March 08, 2007
KitMaker: 325 posts
Armorama: 322 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 04:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Most are pretty reasonable (AFAIK) grammatically, since they're copied from photos, not that I'm a Russian reader at more than the most superficial level. But they're not always applied to the correct version of the tank.
One notoriously bogus example is, however, in the Tamiya KV-2 - instead of the usual Russian word 'Za' (for) they actually spell the word in English as F-O-R in Cyrillic letters
David
" Фор Мать Руссия! "
A classic gaffe...
BorisS
Joined: October 07, 2007
KitMaker: 144 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 05:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI was born in Russia and lived there for 9 years. Went to school up until halfway through second grade before we moved to NY
So, do you speak russian? In which city have you lived?
Yes, I speak fluent Russian. I might get a bit stuck looking for a word sometimes, but then again I lived in the US for 9 years now and other than with my parents don't use Russian much. I can read well too, takes me a little while. I can't write very well though because I mostly forgot the alphabet.
I used to live in Kashira in the Moscow oblast. I went back to visit 2 years ago. But I went to Yekaterinburg
BorisS
Joined: October 07, 2007
KitMaker: 144 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 05:03 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextMost are pretty reasonable (AFAIK) grammatically, since they're copied from photos, not that I'm a Russian reader at more than the most superficial level. But they're not always applied to the correct version of the tank.
One notoriously bogus example is, however, in the Tamiya KV-2 - instead of the usual Russian word 'Za' (for) they actually spell the word in English as F-O-R in Cyrillic letters
David
" Фор Мать Руссия! "
A classic gaffe...
LOL that can be excusable. Just say the crew picked up a bit of english when they met up with the Americans in germany.
yankeearty
Joined: December 31, 2007
KitMaker: 73 posts
Armorama: 70 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 05:38 AM UTC
tray adding ha k berlin im pretty sure it translates to 'on to berlin' so it sould be good for late war post 1943 russian tanks and i am pretty sure i saw i on a t34 and used it on my own t34 85 witch u can see on http://biggpodcasting.ning.com/ yes i am using this as a spot to shamelessly promoting my podcast site 
BorisS
Joined: October 07, 2007
KitMaker: 144 posts
Armorama: 91 posts
Posted: Monday, April 21, 2008 - 02:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
tray adding ha k berlin im pretty sure it translates to 'on to berlin' so it sould be good for late war post 1943 russian tanks and i am pretty sure i saw i on a t34 and used it on my own t34 85 witch u can see on http://biggpodcasting.ning.com/ yes i am using this as a spot to shamelessly promoting my podcast site
it would actually be NA BERLIN or in russian: НА БЕРЛИН
Pavlovsdog
Joined: June 05, 2006
KitMaker: 438 posts
Armorama: 352 posts
Posted: Monday, April 21, 2008 - 04:02 AM UTC
Hi Guys ,
I'll just take this moment to bore all to tears about a slogan I have recently painted on the Side of an SU-100 , It should read "Remember Zoya"
The bases for this is pure conjecture SU100 crews did paint slogans on the side of their vehicles, and the Myth of Zoya was used to great effect by Soviet propaganda , so theoretically it was possible that somthing along those lines was used although unlikely.
The Slogan is based on a shot of a BT-5 being manufactured in an armament factory the workers had written on the hull in Cyrillic "For partisan Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya" or words to that effect
Also could I thank Aleksey for his correction to my poor Cyrillic Spelling below:
http://www.greeklish.org/features/zoya/home.html
With all best wishes ,
Jerry
I'll just take this moment to bore all to tears about a slogan I have recently painted on the Side of an SU-100 , It should read "Remember Zoya"
The bases for this is pure conjecture SU100 crews did paint slogans on the side of their vehicles, and the Myth of Zoya was used to great effect by Soviet propaganda , so theoretically it was possible that somthing along those lines was used although unlikely.
The Slogan is based on a shot of a BT-5 being manufactured in an armament factory the workers had written on the hull in Cyrillic "For partisan Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya" or words to that effect
Also could I thank Aleksey for his correction to my poor Cyrillic Spelling below:
http://www.greeklish.org/features/zoya/home.html
With all best wishes ,
Jerry
jimb
Joined: August 25, 2006
KitMaker: 2,539 posts
Armorama: 238 posts
Posted: Monday, April 21, 2008 - 04:34 AM UTC
Kuno-Von-Dodenburg
Joined: February 20, 2007
KitMaker: 1,453 posts
Armorama: 1,319 posts
Posted: Monday, April 21, 2008 - 05:26 AM UTC
As a translator by profession (albeit for German & English, not Russian) I'd advise caution there as translation isn't simply a matter of "word substitution"!! There's a lot more to it than that.
Some of these online translation engines produce sheer, unadulterated garbage.
- Steve
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.