Gents,
I am looking into the future of Canadian Modern armour and I was wondering what colour we will end up painting our new main battle tanks once we get them all. Will they remain in the 3 tone Nato camo or might we see them painted in our standard green or how about a sand colour? What do you think!
I'd like to see our tanks painted in the theater they will work in.
Cheers
Brad
Hosted by Darren Baker
Cdn Leopard 2A6M/4 Camo Speculation
Brad-M
Joined: June 06, 2008
KitMaker: 402 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 02:30 AM UTC
sauceman
Joined: September 28, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 04:20 AM UTC
If I was to guess, and knowing how frugal the Canadian military can be 
, I would put my money on plain 'ol green.
cheers
, I would put my money on plain 'ol green.cheers
gcdavidson
Joined: August 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,698 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 04:21 AM UTC
Plain green. We'll be out of Afghanistan long before 202 Wksp refurbs the 2A4's rusting away in Montreal.
Brad-M
Joined: June 06, 2008
KitMaker: 402 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 04:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Plain green. We'll be out of Afghanistan long before 202 Wksp refurbs the 2A4's rusting away in Montreal.
So Graeme we already have 2A4's?? Man I didn't know. I'm in the Cdn Navy, posted in Victoria, so we don't get to hear too much regarding our Armour Bretheren.
Cheers
Brad
Recce_Guy
Joined: August 28, 2007
KitMaker: 110 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 05:38 AM UTC
They are painted a slightly darker shade of greeen than the current C2's.
There are four Leo 2A4's at Gagetown right now.
There are four Leo 2A4's at Gagetown right now.
chrisj
Joined: February 04, 2007
KitMaker: 473 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 06:56 AM UTC
The color of the 2A4s are showing old German green through the darker green tone the Dutch used when they repainted them. There's lots of fading and over tones if you plan on modeling one, it makes for a good paint job.
The 2A6s are going back into German service.
The 2A6s are going back into German service.
Brad-M
Joined: June 06, 2008
KitMaker: 402 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 10:51 AM UTC
Hi,
I had heard that because the 2A6M's were so Canadianized, that we were going to keep them. It would be a shame to have to giev them back. I realize that they were only leased from the Germans, but even I have leased to own vehicles
Thanks...any chance anyone might have a photo or two of the 2A4's already in Canada?
Cheers
Brad
I had heard that because the 2A6M's were so Canadianized, that we were going to keep them. It would be a shame to have to giev them back. I realize that they were only leased from the Germans, but even I have leased to own vehicles
Thanks...any chance anyone might have a photo or two of the 2A4's already in Canada?
Cheers
Brad
csmanning
Joined: March 23, 2008
KitMaker: 333 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 10:58 AM UTC
Aren't we upgrading the 2A4s to 2A6 or 2A6M specs?
gcdavidson
Joined: August 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,698 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 11:52 AM UTC
Carmen, that was the plan, but with the Army $200M in the hole, I think the idea of a 2A6M fleet is a long way off. Probably see something along the lines of a 2A4+...with the "+" meaning whatever we can afford to add on once we've bought new AEV, CCV, etc.
Brad, good to see a Jacky Tar taking interest in the green side. Take a look at the Modern Canadian Discussion group if you're stuck for info:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/
Brad, good to see a Jacky Tar taking interest in the green side. Take a look at the Modern Canadian Discussion group if you're stuck for info:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 02:48 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The 2A6s are going back into German service.
No they aren't. Canada has purchased the 2A6Ms used in Afghanistan. The Government will be paying for replacement 2A6Ms for Germany.
chrisj
Joined: February 04, 2007
KitMaker: 473 posts
Armorama: 467 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 02:52 PM UTC
Brad there are some pics of the Dutch 2A4s in a Montreal ship yard there on Anthony Seawards Photobucket, not sure the link he may see this and add it. If not PM me and I'll get to it.
By the time Canada is finished with the 2A6s they'll be hurting and in need of major overhuals.
Heres a pic of a Canadian Leo 2A4s I mocked up
By the time Canada is finished with the 2A6s they'll be hurting and in need of major overhuals.
Heres a pic of a Canadian Leo 2A4s I mocked up
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 02:52 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks...any chance anyone might have a photo or two of the 2A4's already in Canada?
Page 7 of the album.....
http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/ldshrecceboy/?start=120
chrisj
Joined: February 04, 2007
KitMaker: 473 posts
Armorama: 467 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 02:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe 2A6s are going back into German service.
No they aren't. Canada has purchased the 2A6Ms used in Afghanistan. The Government will be paying for replacement 2A6Ms for Germany.
Thats cool. PCs are good for something.
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 02:56 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Aren't we upgrading the 2A4s to 2A6 or 2A6M specs?
Not even the Armoured guys at the sharp end that I know are holding on to this dream anymore.....budget, budget, budget. If anything they will be upgrade the 2A4s to a Canadian standard and keep a Squadron in operational ready reserve......and they will probably be the 2A6Ms.....but they may be re-barrelled to make them 2A5Ms.
Brad-M
Joined: June 06, 2008
KitMaker: 402 posts
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Posted: Friday, October 09, 2009 - 02:21 AM UTC
Thanks everyone! Armorama Rocks!
Cheers
Brad
Cheers
Brad
viper29_ca
Joined: October 18, 2002
KitMaker: 2,247 posts
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Posted: Friday, October 09, 2009 - 01:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
There are four Leo 2A4's at Gagetown right now.
As far as I know, they are all still in MTL, and if there are infact any down here, they would be in the same condition as the ones in MTL as they haven't had anything done to them.
Trackjam
Joined: April 12, 2002
KitMaker: 831 posts
Armorama: 614 posts
Posted: Monday, October 19, 2009 - 01:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe 2A6s are going back into German service.
No they aren't. Canada has purchased the 2A6Ms used in Afghanistan. The Government will be paying for replacement 2A6Ms for Germany.
Last I heard from the PM was that 20 of the Dutch Leopard 2s were going to Krauss Maffei to be upgraded to Leopard 2A6M and handed over to the Germans in exchange for those we have in theatre. So it looks as if we will have a mixed fleet of 2A6 and A4 tanks. Also looks as if the new AEV project will proceed, but money is tight and it may be quite some time yet.
recceboy
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 706 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2009 - 02:20 AM UTC
"Last I heard from the PM was that 20 of the Dutch Leopard 2s were going to Krauss Maffei to be upgraded to Leopard 2A6M and handed over to the Germans in exchange for those we have in theatre. " Paul F.
Paul has it right on the money, we are converting 20 2A4's upto the A6M version and sending them back to the Germans, completeing the circle of life for those 20 Leopards. The rest will be brought up to a A4+ with armour and barrel upgrades, the contacts are now in place and the work is to start soon.
Cheers
Anthony
Paul has it right on the money, we are converting 20 2A4's upto the A6M version and sending them back to the Germans, completeing the circle of life for those 20 Leopards. The rest will be brought up to a A4+ with armour and barrel upgrades, the contacts are now in place and the work is to start soon.
Cheers
Anthony
Brad-M
Joined: June 06, 2008
KitMaker: 402 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2009 - 02:27 AM UTC
Perfect, thanks Anthony.
Brad
Brad
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2009 - 02:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
the contacts are now in place and the work is to start soon.
Ha ha...anyone want to start a pool as to what "soon" means to the government?
gcdavidson
Joined: August 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,698 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2009 - 03:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Textthe contacts are now in place and the work is to start soon.
Ha ha...anyone want to start a pool as to what "soon" means to the government?
The work may start soon...but when its finished, that's where high odds bets are!
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Monday, October 19, 2009 - 04:16 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted Textthe contacts are now in place and the work is to start soon.
Ha ha...anyone want to start a pool as to what "soon" means to the government?
The work may start soon...but when its finished, that's where high odds bets are!
Whatever happens when they are finished.....if the 2A4+s are to be used to rotate into Afghanistan and replace or augment the 2A6Ms.....I hope Canada gets off the wallet and spends the money on suitable additional armour for the 2A4+....such as some of the components of the IBD Leopard 2A4 Evolution demonstrator.
chrisj
Joined: February 04, 2007
KitMaker: 473 posts
Armorama: 467 posts
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2009 - 07:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextQuoted Textthe contacts are now in place and the work is to start soon.
Ha ha...anyone want to start a pool as to what "soon" means to the government?
The work may start soon...but when its finished, that's where high odds bets are!
Whatever happens when they are finished.....if the 2A4+s are to be used to rotate into Afghanistan and replace or augment the 2A6Ms.....I hope Canada gets off the wallet and spends the money on suitable additional armour for the 2A4+....such as some of the components of the IBD Leopard 2A4 Evolution demonstrator.
When you look at the situation in Afgan. the one thing that comes to the forefront is crew protection. So I would think the frontal armor and belly armor will be added. Next thing would be storage space, the Leopard 2A4 has less crew storage space then the Leopard C2. This means possibly the rear bins like the ones on the Strv. 122 or Danish Leopard will be added. Or maybe bins like the ones on the Finnish/Norwigion will go on there.
gcdavidson
Joined: August 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,698 posts
Armorama: 1,563 posts
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2009 - 09:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Whatever happens when they are finished.....if the 2A4+s are to be used to rotate into Afghanistan and replace or augment the 2A6Ms......
If the 2A4+ are ready to deploy on ATHENA before 2011, then I'll eat a bug.
Wonder what will become of the C2? Would be neat to see a Moe Regt get them, but we know that will never happen.
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2009 - 12:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextQuoted TextQuoted Textthe contacts are now in place and the work is to start soon.
Ha ha...anyone want to start a pool as to what "soon" means to the government?
The work may start soon...but when its finished, that's where high odds bets are!
Whatever happens when they are finished.....if the 2A4+s are to be used to rotate into Afghanistan and replace or augment the 2A6Ms.....I hope Canada gets off the wallet and spends the money on suitable additional armour for the 2A4+....such as some of the components of the IBD Leopard 2A4 Evolution demonstrator.
When you look at the situation in Afgan. the one thing that comes to the forefront is crew protection. So I would think the frontal armor and belly armor will be added. Next thing would be storage space, the Leopard 2A4 has less crew storage space then the Leopard C2. This means possibly the rear bins like the ones on the Strv. 122 or Danish Leopard will be added. Or maybe bins like the ones on the Finnish/Norwigion will go on there.
I disagree about the storage space issue. Tank crews know how to operate on a tank with the minimal amount of kit carried. If you can't strap it on or jam it in somewhere it doesn't come on the tank. The Afghan environment is a unique one and the amount of kit carried is beyond what a tank crew in Canada or Europe would carry. There has been no additional stowage added to the 2A6Ms the crews have simply adapted to the situation and used field expedient stowage methods.
Crew protection for sure.....the AMAP armour has evolved from the original IDB MEXAS.....and Canada would do very well investing in the new packages for the Leopards.
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