Phantom,

This web site is not going to get anyone interested in building models, or turn them away. If they have found this website it is because they are already interested. I was sitting out on the back steps this afternoon in the sun listening to the Purdue game on the radio having my wife's 5 year old nephew help me build a Tamiya halftrack model. He wanted to know why we weren't "down in the bunker, Uncle Shaun?" (We usually build models in the damp basement together.) I told him because it was nice out. That is how you gets kids to love building models. He is only five but his dad can't or doesn't spend the time. If he grows and and decides that building models is a better hobby than smoking crack, well, then, I have done my job.

I introduced him to the hobby and will continue to do so. That is all I can do.

Shaun

I read for pleasure all the time. And, I spend way more on beer than I do on models, much to my wife's dismay.

Shaun

Gunnie:
Great idea - anything to end the confusion.

Keenan has taken the words out of my mouth... :-)

I quite agree with Phantom Major that we should do everything we can to encourage newcomers to the hobby - but if anyone has taken the trouble to join Armorama in the first place, I think they're already a convert.

To be honest, I'm really delighted that Armorama seems to attract so many "younger" modellers! :-) I only wish there'd been something like this when I was a teenager! (I'm 44) :-)

I think this debate is turning more to the question of whether full Campaigns are necessarily the best way of involving Armorama members in a shared experience.

It's certainly given me reason to re-think my postion...

All the best

Rowan

Hi,

About the number of campaigns I think that should be also considered some for the other languages sections. Some of the people that frequent those areas are not at ease with english and so they will not participate at the international ones but they participate at one where they can use their natural language.

My 2 cents-

I think that these campaigns are a GREAT idea...and I feel that they are a great way to get people to build something that isn't on their normal agenda. I might even build a ship or plane - it would be fun in a campaign setting.

Limiting the number of "approved" campaings is perfectly acceptabe to me, however I do feel that more than one per year in each category should be done. Of course I have no idea how much work it is to administer a campaign - so I may be off base.

I think what Gunnie was saying is that he is getting deluged with requests for campaigns. When 10 or 11 guys email him that they want to start a campaign about German cross channel ferries, 15 more want a campaign centered on the Lord of the Rings books, 6-8 additional people want a campaign featuring Mae West, he can't possibly incorporate them all into the site. Approved campaigns will be incorporated - he's asking for patience.

At least that is my take on this thread... I in no way intend to offend anybody so I hope those of you who wanted the Mae West campaign will forgive me :-)

I think that people should think BROAD appeal when designing a campaign.... that way it gets more people involved as well as reduces the work load associated with it. If more people are involved in each campaign, there wouldn't need to be as many different ones going on at the same time.

Jeff

I'm new here but I have to say this site got me back into models big time, I haven't built anything in about 5 years and except for a brief period (about 1/2 a dozen 1/72 scale tanks and a 1/48 Tigercat) I really haven't built anything since 1991. Since this site was suggested to me I have started 2 1/35 tanks (a Cromwell I started before I found out about Armorama and a KV-2 for Barbarosa), I've got an F/A18 and UH-1C for wings over the water, a SDKFZ 222 (orignially for Barbarosa but its delivery was delayed until yesterday so I may not have time), a SGT York for Twilight 2000, an LAV-25 for Twilight 2000, a UH-1H for the helicopter campaign (I bought it for wings over the water but then found out the Seawolves didn't have any UH-1Hs) and a LRDG 1941 Chevrolet for a day in the sun. In between I have designed and built two wooden WW1 fighters (SE-5a and Fokker Dr1) for my 3 year old son in approximately 1/28 scale which were inspired by Age of Aces although since they are really toys I don't think they would qualify for the campaign, I've designed plans for about 20 more.

If the main issue is the Campaigns are getting out of hand for the moderators that is understandable, but I would really not like to see them cut back so drastically as mentioned as they have resulted in my exploring kits I probably wouldn't have otherwise, I spent quite awhile sifting through Soviet armor before deciding on the KV-2, I've never built Soviet Armor before, I will be building more in the future. Group builds don't sound like they are a satisfactory replacement as they subject is too limited.

My suggestion is add a third catagory along the lines of the campaigns but without all the overhead. An unofficial campaign where the idea is promoted but primarily moderated by the topic originator in a format like the Campaign forum, the only official support required is whatever the site moderators are willing / able to provide and bandwidth for the discussions related to the build. I think this might be a happy medium, those of us with the time and money would have our building habit satisfied and ideas should continue to flow freely, perhaps the best of these or those with the widest appeal could be selected for official campaigns with all the additional support that requires. Perhaps the unofficial campaigns could be called skirmishes, battles or some such, or allow them to take the name Campaign and the official campaigns could be renamed Grand Campaigns, Theatre Campaigns or some other name as appropriate. The early Twilight 2000 campaign would be a good example of what I picture for the unofficial campaign (or whatever).

Anyway my thoughts, BTW it would also be nice if there were a newbies page with the "rules" for the builds, how to post pics etc. I've picked up some of this from posts but I haven't found a specific area explaining how all this works, I've got shots of my KV-2 but don't really understand how to post them or I would have them in my folder.

Thanks

omly five? jeez that would be one LONG campaign!

Very well said, Shaun, my sentiments exactly.

If limiting the number of campaigns per year has to be done could I suggest that each campaign subject is as broad as possible? For example instead of an armoured campaign of say the Battle of El Alemain, an open campaign allowing all the forces directly involved in the battle to be built. As each campaign usually has sub-categories for beginner, OOB, expert, etc why not have sub-categories for aircraft, figures, armour etc.
So five campaigns per year may at least allow more people from the diferent forums to find one they would like to enter. I don't know if this is possible or whether it would simply replace one lot of work for the organisers with another. I just worry that too limited a choice of campaigns would stop people from looking at joining one, and that would be a shame as I really enjoyed my participation in one. I think I suggested this once before but it was not well received but it could be an option to consider with the change to the campaigns that will be brought in.
Just a thought
Martin

Hi Martin

The good news is that Vlady has done just what you suggest with his Desert Campaign proposal. It's open to armour and aircraft. I've seen posts about a "tank-busting" campaign too - catering for both aircraft and armour.:-)

Obviously, it would be impossible to make every campaign or group build applicable to all types of modelling, or the choice would become too narrow.

But let's face it, most modern warfare combines both ground- and air-power so why not include both categories? That way, you could be sure of the maximum interest in a campaign. :-)

I'd have loved to enter an aircraft into Barbarossa...

All the best

Rowan

This is a topic that has brought up many opinions over the last year. When I brought up the idea of a campaign calander about 3 months ago, so we didnt have too many campaigns of the same type running together, the general consensus was, that if 10 or more modellers were interested in joining in, the campaign could go ahead. Now with the rush to get campaigns running, it has overloaded the system a bit!!
There are quite a few campaigns, with everything almost ready, ready to run. It would be sad to lose these as they have generated quite a lot of interest. I have to agree with Phantom major, that these campaigns have gotten people back modelling and finishing campaigns, and also bringing in the newer and younger modeller.
But I have to also agree, with what Gunnie has written. Loads of campaigns running simultaenously wouldnt be a problem, if they were kept alive and the majority finished them. I think those that have volunteered to lead each campaign, have to to take a greater control over the their campaign, try to keep it alive and see that they co-ordinate their campaign into a consistent schedule.
Its a little dissapointing to see that the lead-up to a campaign is generating more interest, than the campaign itself. So we must all take some initiative when we sign up to a campaign and follow through more.
Just my rant for today!!

Campaigns...

First- a Huge THANK YOU to everyone who does all the behind the scenes work to make all this great website happen. THANKS to ALL the Armorama stuff- from Campaigns to, wells, EVERYTHING! My own experience has shown me that often 95% of the load is shouldered by 5% of the “population”, and I suspect it is actually more skewed than that! Gunnie, Sabot, Jim, (please do not infer anything if your name was left out...its’ late) you guys are GREAT!!! I finished a model- first in 20+ years. Digital pics are still forthcoming- they are still on the system of the person who I borrowed the camera from. THANKS A TON!!!

I think the intense interest in Campaigns is overall a GOOD thing. To me, a relative newbie on the site, it seems indicative of a LOT of interest. And that has to be good!! Based on several realworld experiences, I know that too much interest far outweighs too little interest!

Managing growth is a hard task...overall a better position to be in than too little interest, but still fraught with potential problems. Trying to do TOO much can drag the ship under if there are not enough resources to manage everything. Maybe we, the population of Armorama, need to step up and do more?

I for one (and as always this is just my opinion) would like to see more than one Campaign per category per year. Perhaps 2-3 per category...that works out to a project per category every 4-6 months. That kind of timing seems to allow for a somewhat relaxed pace for the builds and gives people that are “hooked” on a topic (armor in my case) more than one build per year.

OK, so here I am asking more from the staff of Armorama...how can this work. MAYBE this is a solution- I hereby volunteer to help out in any way I can. Perhaps we need an ARMOR-CORPS to chip in and do some of the work- if that is a doable solution, put my name on the list. I’ll forward any potentially useful skill sets in a PM.

I am a victim of the V Syndrome- the VOLUNTEER Syndrome that is! Let me know what I can do and I WILL DO MY BEST!

Will this approach help??

THANKS!

Oh and one last comment- I’ve been involved in online “group” work on the Internet for years...actually before the Internet was prevalent (GEnie-AirWarrior-1987 or so; then I went away for a while ). I have found discussion boards and Emails to be full of danger for discussions that involve emotions and deeply held opinions. The lack of voice or face-to-face eliminates all inflection, body language and all the subtle nuances that make real communications work- often resulting in misunderstandings that grow beyond reason... please be careful.

Again- everything I have said is just my opinion- nothing more, nothing less!


NOTE: Ramble Mode=OFF

First let me say that I agree with Gunnie totally. I can't imagine the amount of work that goes into keeping the campaigns flowing and addressing all the great ideas the members come up with.
I think a campaign commitee would be a good idea, but I thought I would throw this idea out to see what people thought.
If we had enough volenteers. We could create a committe for each subject. A/C, armor, warships, etc etc. People could volenteer for the commitee that interests them.
The ideas are submitted to the committee and reviewed by them. Once all the details are hammered out between the committe and the individual it would then be submitted to Gunny for approval/disapproval or modification.
Gunny would still have final say and oversee the entire process but hopefully it would make the job more mangable and take some of "the work " of the process away.
I would gladly volenteer for the Warship and Aircraft committee due to the fact that is what I mostly build.
Just a suggestion I thought I would throw out there. Keep up the good work Gunny anything I can do to help just let me know....

A really good and helpful idea warlock0322. This might help Gunnie out with his workload. I think the major problem though is the extra work for Jim to set up all folders. How much are these folders needed? maybe we could have threads just for the participants to post in. Might be a lot less work for Jim.

Thanks Plastic To answer your question about the folder though. I have no idea. I was just going on the theory that. If we could save work for Gunny it may travel up and save work for Jim as well.
I support anything that would save these two dedicated people work .
Maybe instead of a thread they could use the Campaign journals instead??
Paul

I am with Jaster. If there is anything I can do to take some of the load off, please let me know.

Shaun

don't forget the small but oh-so-important sci-fi section as a campaign interest! it probably shouldn't count towards your five maximum campaigns, but if someone ever thinks of a sci-fi build, then it would be a great promotion of the small field.

I just found this thread and will put my 2 cents worth in.

The catagories of the campaigns must be as broad based as possible especially with Armor only having one campaign a year.

By this I mean that armor contains a lot of different sub catagories like tanks, softskins, modern, WW2 etc.

So with only one a year someone or something has to miss out. Whereas if it was broad based you could do all types of armor or vehicles in a given campaign or at a certain time.

I am more likely to suggest that armor gets two campaigns a year. One for Pre 1955 (WW1,WW2 and korea) and one for post 1955 (vietnam, gulf war etc)

this way it is fair to all the armor modelers who are members of this site.

I also agree that science fiction should have a campaign as well as should the other main catagories. If they do not use it then nothing should take it's place!

that's about it from me at the moment without some more thinking. However I do have one question and that is "who are the members of the Campaign Committee who approve them"

First Off Let me say... I like the Campaign's.

2nd I agree that too many of them dilute modeling skills.

I would like to see fewer campaigns with longer build times for the following reasons.

1. Too many interesting campaigns creates the "must join" culture. If you try to do too many you may be forced with the decision of resigning from the build or trying to hurry the model building along.

2. Trying to finish something in time to finish the build may cause you to work with less than your full skills to finish. I just finished Tank Destroyers campaign. It was a four month build which seems enough time but when taken in to account that I built a fairly complex kit and the fact that I work full time and have a family to take care of, I barly made it in time and while working on the campaign I was unable to spend any time working on anything else so by the time I finished was a bit tired of working on the same kit without having something else going to keep things interesting.

I don't really have any great idea's on how to fix it to make everyone happy. but I think the goal of campaigns should be.

1. To encourage People to finish models

2. To encourage people to share their work and make armorama a community site by giving yet another outlet for model builders to communicate.

3. To encourage people to grow in their skill level by using a group activity to focus a number of people to work on similar projects and face similar problems. (in TD campaign I got a lot of insight from all those who also worked on M-10's.)

4. To encourage people to feel that they have something to contribute to the site no matter what skill level they are building on.

I know that there are a lot of campaign ideas being floated around, so i'll drop in my dime's worth.

Yes Limit the number of similar ongoing campaigns. Space them out so that there is not so much overlap.. why have 4 or 5 armor campaigns going on at once..

have those who have the campaign idea do more preparatory work before sending it to a "Campaign Committee"

Maybe if there are several similar campaigns requested there could be some sort of voting system set up using the survey type system so that voting would be confidential.

anyways what ever way the future leads let us all remember the main goal in Model building Have fun and when your finished you have something to show for all your hard work and the satisfaction of a job well done....

I am really new to this site and the campaign thing so far seems to be a lot of fun even if I am in just one right now. My piont being that I passed a couple of camoaigns so I could build in Dreadnought's and passed up Flat Tops for Leyte Gulf although have'nt officially signed up yet. I do pick and chose and feel no need or pressure to "do em all". If it is a lack of help maybe be more open to ask for it and yes I'll do what I can. Secondly maybe have a armour committee and a ships committe type thing because I think its fair to say that most people can build four AFV's a year compared to two ships a year. I guess what I'm trying to say is let each faction (AFV, Ships,Aircraft,Dio,etc.) do their own monitering as far as number of campaigns and how long. Maybe even help spread out the work load and simplify with some micromanagement. Yes this is a great site and very interesting for all the points of view. Just a long thought.

Hi, I was wanting to start some kind of activity for the young people of Armorama. (0-15) as a young modeller I know its hard to get your work out-there, It would have no general rules, and would be of any subject. What would this be catagorizeds as, and would I have to wait until next year?

thanks
-Will

That idea is already in the discussion stage. In the past, the AGE Campaign has been setup and run specifically for the younger Armorama members. Give it a little time for the an upcoming AGE Campaign idea(s) to gel...

Gunnie

I have a question. once you start a campaing, how do you submit your progress?

Sam, the campaign it´s group build kind of event. Usually, an "Official Thread" for the campaign you´re interested in participate it´s open by the campaign leader, and you place your in progress pics there. And it´s also common to open a new topic by your on with a short campaign title and your name or name of the build in progress.

Of course, you have to have a photobucket, imageshack or that kind of site account to have direct linking of your pics, or use the gallery of the Kitmaker Network and use your available space.

Hope it helps

Cheers

thanks