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Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
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T-90 fell from a bridge
afv_rob
Joined: October 09, 2005
KitMaker: 2,556 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 12:25 PM UTC
Theres a photo in RAIDS magazine special on the 2003 Iraq war, shows a T-72 turret that was blown up in the air and landed on the roof of a 2/3 story building, so it does happen. Sadly I don't have a scan to hand.
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 12:58 PM UTC
Serbian M-84 destroyed during the Balcan war. Tank turret blew away and stuck into the ground
I think that spite the weight, the hemispherical shape of a turret can be pushed away easily by the air desplacement derived by a blast
That's the reason why mine clearing vehicles usually have "V shaped" cross section. It's the best shape to weaken a push coming from below
I think that spite the weight, the hemispherical shape of a turret can be pushed away easily by the air desplacement derived by a blast
That's the reason why mine clearing vehicles usually have "V shaped" cross section. It's the best shape to weaken a push coming from below
Campeador
Joined: September 25, 2007
KitMaker: 28 posts
Armorama: 27 posts
Posted: Friday, January 13, 2012 - 12:02 AM UTC
The main problem of the T-72 series exploding violently when penetrated is not the autoloader, it is the extra ammo carried in the crew compartment.
Russian tankers had learned from previous conflicts in the Caucasus that if you don't carry the extra ammo in the crew compartment but only those in the autoloader, then any penetration will not lead inevitable to an internal explosion.
That is one of the reasoning behind the T-90AM upgrade, that adds an external turret bustle autoloader for the extra ammo.
About the destroyed georgian tanks from the 2008 conflict: Those tanks were destroyed by the russian airforce, no tank would survive that, flying turret or not.
Russian tankers had learned from previous conflicts in the Caucasus that if you don't carry the extra ammo in the crew compartment but only those in the autoloader, then any penetration will not lead inevitable to an internal explosion.
That is one of the reasoning behind the T-90AM upgrade, that adds an external turret bustle autoloader for the extra ammo.
About the destroyed georgian tanks from the 2008 conflict: Those tanks were destroyed by the russian airforce, no tank would survive that, flying turret or not.
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Friday, January 13, 2012 - 12:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
DJQuoted TextIf we have some folks who were in Gulf War I, I believe they can explain and show how shots on Russian tanks usually result in turret blow offs. I also recall they achieved these results using Multi Purpose Anti Tank (MPAT) 120mm rounds vice the Sabot type. Seems to me I have also seen photos of T-34 with the same end result. If someone has more knowledge on the subject, I would be most interested in hearing about their experiences.
DJ
We didn't have MPAT rounds just HEAT and SABOT back in the GW1. But yes on the blow off, usually with SABOT rounds. The force of the impact on such a small concentrated area usually caused a vacuum that forced air rapidly in to the hull and then needed some place to go, usually up. Although there were stories of crews being sucked through the exit hole, which was usually the size of a half dollar. . .
Damon-- thank you for the response. I am sorry that some contributors thought my observation was off the topic. But, it seems to me that Russian tanks have a proclivity to turret loss when hit. I find it an interesting topic to discuss.
Thanks again
DJ
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, January 13, 2012 - 01:04 AM UTC
Quoted Text
...I think I know what happened...
(ps. That would be another nice idea for a diorama)
Although her name eludes me(it's been 12 years), I've met and got to know the readhead very, very well.
jointhepit
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 3,829 posts
Armorama: 881 posts
Posted: Friday, January 13, 2012 - 01:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
...I think I know what happened...
(ps. That would be another nice idea for a diorama)
WHAHAHAHAHAHA, LOL
that's a good one, but I guess not only russian tankdrivers have that problem!
LOL
Karl187
#284
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Friday, January 13, 2012 - 04:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The main problem of the T-72 series exploding violently when penetrated is not the autoloader, it is the extra ammo carried in the crew compartment.
Russian tankers had learned from previous conflicts in the Caucasus that if you don't carry the extra ammo in the crew compartment but only those in the autoloader, then any penetration will not lead inevitable to an internal explosion.
That is one of the reasoning behind the T-90AM upgrade, that adds an external turret bustle autoloader for the extra ammo.
About the destroyed georgian tanks from the 2008 conflict: Those tanks were destroyed by the russian airforce, no tank would survive that, flying turret or not.
Just to add to this aspect of the discussion:
If you have the Osprey T-80 Standard Tank book (by Steve Zaloga) he talks about how, in Chechnya, the Chechens would exploit the weakness of the rear hull top armor and fire RPG's from above. The RPG would, he explains, penetrate through the engine deck, "pass through the unarmored firewall between the engine and fighting compartment, striking the ammunition around the turret. This started a chain of explosions of the tank propellant, causing the tank to 'lose its cap'."
I remember once talking to a British Challenger tanker who'd served in GW1, he talked a little about one of his crew's kills and he said he saw a lot of Iraqi armor with the turret detached somewhere nearby, I believe the British referred to the catastrophic fires as 'brewing up.' (In the British Army when they make tea they call it a 'brew' or 'brewing up', I believe thats where they borrowed the term about the tank fires from.)
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Friday, January 13, 2012 - 05:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text...I think I know what happened...
(ps. That would be another nice idea for a diorama)
WHAHAHAHAHAHA, LOL
that's a good one, but I guess not only russian tankdrivers have that problem!
LOL
Yes, that's it Pit!!
... But girls vodka and tanks are maybe some of the best things which Russia can offer...However to mix together these three things could be incredibly dangerous
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