Texas, United States
Joined: March 17, 2006
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Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 - 01:51 PM UTC
On the workbench:
T-62M
ZTZ 99 MBT
Lav-25A2 with MILES Gear
M7 Priest X2
Ontario, Canada
Joined: April 12, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2012 - 12:14 AM UTC
Looking good. You might want to replace the turn signals on the external stowage tanks. The lights are different on a Canadian track. I'll try to find some good photos in my archive. Where was the photo taken? Interesting to see the AVLBs in the background.
Paul Fredenburg
LCol (Ret'd)
Royal Canadian Engineers
President Trackjam Models
http://www.trackjam.com/
Texas, United States
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Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2012 - 03:06 AM UTC
Thanks Paul, did not realize the tail lights were different. It's hard to find good photos of canadian vehicle that are from the 80's and 90's. Most everything I have found so far are from astan. By the way the picture came from Canadian Vehicle Discussion Group and is lable as Fallex 88 or 89
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M7 Priest X2
Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2012 - 03:22 AM UTC
One of the serious problems in planning against Canadian doctrine is that the Canadians do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligations to follow their doctrine.
---From a Russian document
------------------------------------------------
Texas, United States
Joined: March 17, 2006
KitMaker: 1,117 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2012 - 03:36 AM UTC
Thanks Rick that really helps alot. I should have those very light left over from my cougar build, easy fix.
Cheers
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T-62M
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M7 Priest X2
Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2012 - 11:09 AM UTC
It's not just the lamps, but the housings around the lamps are different too. MLM used to make a good set of external tanks and rear lamps
. Do you have the Diehl tracks for this one? Coming along nicely, is that strips of sandpaper you're using for the velcro?
Jim
"Fire all weapons and open a hailing frequency for my victory yodel" - Zapp Brannigan
Texas, United States
Joined: March 17, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2012 - 03:55 PM UTC
Thanks Jim, I notice the housing is different and plan to make them. I do have the newer style tracks from afv club I will be adding. I also need to add the additional fron lights to the hull. The velcro strips are 400 grit sandpaper
Cheers
On the workbench:
T-62M
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 - 09:14 AM UTC
On the workbench:
T-62M
ZTZ 99 MBT
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M7 Priest X2
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: October 10, 2011
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Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 - 12:23 PM UTC
Looking very good! Nice scratching!
Ontario, Canada
Joined: April 12, 2002
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Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 - 01:16 PM UTC
Very nice work. An observation though. I don't ever recall seeing kit hanging off the side of a Canadian carrier. Something a good Sergeant Major would not tolerate. We tended to jam it all inside.
Paul Fredenburg
LCol (Ret'd)
Royal Canadian Engineers
President Trackjam Models
http://www.trackjam.com/
Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 - 03:53 PM UTC
Chris,
Good effort overall but I have a few suggestions for you to make it more accurate...
1. Remove the hull armoured fueling cover...these were blanked over when the external fuel tank was removed and the external tanks added.
2. As well as changing the rear signal lights the front light clusters need to be modified to the Canadian version...covered signal lights need to be added to the front hull.
3. Pretty much all M113s in Germany had a dual set of wire cutters added to the front hull...you can see them in the image you posted.
4. The C7 Rifle would be accurate for 1988/1989...note the C9 on the back of the M113 in the image you posted...if that is in service then so would have the C7.
"We're not the public service of Canada, we're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces, and our job is to be able to kill people."
July 2005- General R.J. Hillier (Retired), Former Chief of the Defence Staff
Morbihan, France
Joined: February 04, 2012
KitMaker: 88 posts
Armorama: 59 posts
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2012 - 07:32 PM UTC
Hello
Am newbie here but completly addict to M113 from months ( see my post showing new decals for M113 in "new posts" but have been building some various brand kits and when trying to use AFV diehl tracks on different shell than an Afv I feel they were far too long and do not give the real aspect front and rear areas .
have you try to fit them on your Academy ?
Recently I have built Elite convertion in where there are some nice German tracks to built "workable" ( made by HKWshop)and these are very usefull to be adapted to any Academy or Tamiya , Italeri hull
Hope this helps and congratulations for your excelent built
Will follow your log with great interest
Texas, United States
Joined: March 17, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 03:20 AM UTC
Thanks everyone for the great comments. I know there are areas I could improve on to make a more correct canadian version. I'm building an early to mid 80's version and there things that could or could not be on the 113. It's too late for the armour cover for the fuel port to be removed. I did not realize this until after I started to paint everything. Easy fix with some tarps or gear. AS far as the wire cutters go, the one I'm build does not show them in place so I left them off. For the front turn signals go, I've seen pictures with them in place and some without them. I just left them off since I don't have any in stash that matches the shape. For the kit hanging on the hull, everything is just tacked in place, I was planning on having the crew taking a break and just hung there gear there so there would not have to keep going back inside all the time. If you guys spot anything, just point them out.
Cheers
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 04:53 AM UTC
I do have one major question, how common place would a canadian m113 be in overall green? The one I am modelling from armoracorn shows the vehicle in overall green instead of the norm 3 color scheme.
Cheers
On the workbench:
T-62M
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 05:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I do have one major question, how common place would a canadian m113 be in overall green? The one I am modelling from armoracorn shows the vehicle in overall green instead of the norm 3 color scheme.
Cheers
It would have been quite rare. However in the case of the vehicle at Armoured Acorn, the explanation is in the CFR number. Most of our APCs were purchased in the mid 1960's. However there were about 100 vehicles purchased in the 1980s and early 1990's. The one you are referring to indicates a date of 1986. As the camouflage schemes in those days were locally applied and not at the factory, it is likely this vehicle was issued to the unit just before an exercise and there was no time to paint it.
Paul Fredenburg
LCol (Ret'd)
Royal Canadian Engineers
President Trackjam Models
http://www.trackjam.com/
Texas, United States
Joined: March 17, 2006
KitMaker: 1,117 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 06:12 AM UTC
Thanks Paul, so I could easy go with either green or 3 color scheme and not be wrong. I already have the base green in place and did want to go anyfurther until I knew for sure about the paint.
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 01:27 PM UTC
Well I have started the base paint last night and have some of the marking in place. I used Vallejo field green for the base, followed by high lights and shadows. For this I used russian green or interior yellow to lighten or darken the base paint. To add some interest I painted the stowage bin and two of the road wheels russian green. I followed this with some different colored filters to break up the overall green. I used Archer dry transfers for all the markings. Now I can move onto the detail painting and the rest of the weathering.
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T-62M
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 01:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
I do have one major question, how common place would a canadian m113 be in overall green? The one I am modelling from armoracorn shows the vehicle in overall green instead of the norm 3 color scheme.
Cheers
It would have been quite rare. However in the case of the vehicle at Armoured Acorn, the explanation is in the CFR number. Most of our APCs were purchased in the mid 1960's. However there were about 100 vehicles purchased in the 1980s and early 1990's. The one you are referring to indicates a date of 1986. As the camouflage schemes in those days were locally applied and not at the factory, it is likely this vehicle was issued to the unit just before an exercise and there was no time to paint it.
I totally concur....that APC did not make it to the paint shop for the rest of the camouflage before heading to the field....it must have really stuck out amongst the rest of them.
"We're not the public service of Canada, we're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces, and our job is to be able to kill people."
July 2005- General R.J. Hillier (Retired), Former Chief of the Defence Staff
Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 02:10 PM UTC
The paint and markings look good Chris.
If you have a pic of an APC without the front signal lights please send it to me if you can.
I think that all Canadian APCs had them by the later 1980s...there were two styles...a smaller version with a squared off cover and a larger version like on the external tanks with a round cover.
The only pics I have seen without the front signal lights were M113A1s dating back to the late 1960s and early 1970s.
Not a big deal...your APC looks sharp!
Are you planning to add Mortar Platoon call signs to the hull sides? They would look cool cut off my the MILES gear.
"We're not the public service of Canada, we're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces, and our job is to be able to kill people."
July 2005- General R.J. Hillier (Retired), Former Chief of the Defence Staff
Texas, United States
Joined: March 17, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 02:40 PM UTC
Thanks Jason
Here are 2 photos I have showing no front turn signal lights
The first image I co clue of where and when it was taken. The second one I guess is just a special vehicle as to why no front light
By the why any info on the orange circle number thing on the hull
Do you have any photos showing the Call sign
Cheers
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 02:57 PM UTC
This looks like a T-Lav and has turn signals on the front in place of the IR headlights. This is less than a 10 year old pic.
cheers
One of the serious problems in planning against Canadian doctrine is that the Canadians do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligations to follow their doctrine.
---From a Russian document
------------------------------------------------
Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 03:04 PM UTC
The first photo is an M113A1...I have seen that image in a photo set...it was taken in about 1978/1979....very old image of newly painted APCs...they still have the masking tape on the lights.
The second photo in an M113A3 TLAV...the signal lights were repositioned to the light cluster...the middle light is the signal light....you can see they are orange.
The third image shows an M113A1 with the original style front signal light and guard...the orange marking is an exercise marking...it denoted an entire unit or Brigade so the umpires could tell the good NATO forces from the evil red forces.
The call sign for your APC is on the Armoured Acorn drawing....52B.
"We're not the public service of Canada, we're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces, and our job is to be able to kill people."
July 2005- General R.J. Hillier (Retired), Former Chief of the Defence Staff
Texas, United States
Joined: March 17, 2006
KitMaker: 1,117 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 03:18 PM UTC
Thanks for the info on the pictures. I'm just going to roll with no front lights since I don't have any my stash that match the shapes.
52B I will try to hand paint, I have no decals I can use for that.
Would the orange call sign been use along with the miles gear?
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 - 02:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for the info on the pictures. I'm just going to roll with no front lights since I don't have any my stash that match the shapes.
52B I will try to hand paint, I have no decals I can use for that.
Would the orange call sign been use along with the miles gear?
Honestly....don't hand paint the call signs unless you can paint Bold Times New Roman perfectly!!!! Just leave them off if you don't have decals....or try to find some generic aircraft black letters and numbers. Even if you use other letters and numbers other than 52B it would be better...other than you saying it was Mortar Platoon APC there is no visible way to tell it carried a stowed mortar....so just used any simple numbers...12?
The orange exercise markings were used as far as I know outside of the training areas in civilian areas....so no MILES gear.
"We're not the public service of Canada, we're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces, and our job is to be able to kill people."
July 2005- General R.J. Hillier (Retired), Former Chief of the Defence Staff
Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,728 posts
Armorama: 1,629 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 - 04:13 PM UTC
Maybe print out the call sign and carefully cut it out over masking tape and create a real stencil?
Jim
"Fire all weapons and open a hailing frequency for my victory yodel" - Zapp Brannigan
