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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
New aftermarket sets for Zvezda's T-90
afv_rob
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Posted: Thursday, March 08, 2012 - 05:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text


It would be more constructive for all of us (rivet counters or not) sharing references and educated guess rather than express harsch criticism.





Well this I totally agree with! Please don't think Mauro that I believe the kit is junk. I most certainly do not. Yann is entitled to his opinion and I highly respect it, however I personally think the kit is fair.

Anyway, I think we are all friends here and should temper the tone of the argument so this doesn't get out of control! I respect all of the modellers who have contributed to this thread so far and wish that we could move on from this and perhaps do a Mauro suggested and create some sort of tweaks thread.
lukiftian
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Posted: Thursday, March 08, 2012 - 05:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


It would be more constructive for all of us (rivet counters or not) sharing references and educated guess rather than express harsch criticism.





Well this I totally agree with! Please don't think Mauro that I believe the kit is junk. I most certainly do not. Yann is entitled to his opinion and I highly respect it, however I personally think the kit is fair.

Anyway, I think we are all friends here and should temper the tone of the argument so this doesn't get out of control! I respect all of the modellers who have contributed to this thread so far and wish that we could move on from this and perhaps do a Mauro suggested and create some sort of tweaks thread.



I agree, that's a great idea.

And as for aftermarket for this kit a Bhishma conversion would also be welcome.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Thursday, March 08, 2012 - 10:07 PM UTC
Ok guys, so let's begin

First of all, some guys ( https://armorama.kitmaker.net/user.php?op=userinfo&uname=Campeador https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/187381&page=2 ) have said that Zvezda T-90 looks a little bit higher than the actual tank



and He's proposed a solution



They've sayd that actually the problem depends on the side skirts which are oversized, but probably it could be enough change the angle of the suspension arms

What do you think about?

Karl187
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Posted: Thursday, March 08, 2012 - 11:22 PM UTC
Kevin- A Bhishma conversion for the Zvezda kit would be right up my street too!

I agree we should temper things down and do a constructive tweaks thread. Perhaps we should start a new thread for this purpose?
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Thursday, March 08, 2012 - 11:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Kevin- A Bhishma conversion for the Zvezda kit would be right up my street too!

I agree we should temper things down and do a constructive tweaks thread. Perhaps we should start a new thread for this purpose?



Yes Karl, we could start a new topic or write comments on the thread "How to model a T-90"

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/167914&page=1
SEDimmick
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Posted: Friday, March 09, 2012 - 12:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I very confused as to why some members who state that they aren't too fussed about accuracy even bother to enter these discussions...?



The big issue I have is how "harsh" the tone is of the kit...the Zevada kit is prob the most accurate modern Russian 1/35 plastic tank kit that you can buy. This isn't a Skif T-64, where it kinda-storta looks like a T-64, but if you want to look decent, you have to spend around $100 above and beyond the cost of the kit to make it even "accurate". You can build the Zveada kit OOB and it will look the the part of a 1/35 T-90.

I have no problem improving upon the kit (IMO most of the updates that Miniarm has out are recycled parts they have for their Tamiya conversion (which I also have)) that aren't worth the money putting on Zveada kit. I would like to see them address some of the "real" issues with the kit like the mesh for the engine deck or come out with a conversion for it for the Indian T-90 or the like.
Karl187
#284
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Posted: Friday, March 09, 2012 - 01:34 AM UTC
New Thread is up and running:

New T-90 Discussion Thread

-KARL187-
lukiftian
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Posted: Friday, March 09, 2012 - 07:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I very confused as to why some members who state that they aren't too fussed about accuracy even bother to enter these discussions...?



The big issue I have is how "harsh" the tone is of the kit...the Zevada kit is prob the most accurate modern Russian 1/35 plastic tank kit that you can buy. This isn't a Skif T-64, where it kinda-storta looks like a T-64, but if you want to look decent, you have to spend around $100 above and beyond the cost of the kit to make it even "accurate". You can build the Zveada kit OOB and it will look the the part of a 1/35 T-90.

I have no problem improving upon the kit (IMO most of the updates that Miniarm has out are recycled parts they have for their Tamiya conversion (which I also have)) that aren't worth the money putting on Zveada kit. I would like to see them address some of the "real" issues with the kit like the mesh for the engine deck or come out with a conversion for it for the Indian T-90 or the like.



I will say the Miniarm turret is beautiful and depicts details that Zvezda missed, such as heavy welds and roll marks that are definitely not in the Zvezda kit. Those will need to be noted and added. Zvezda's turret is superb but a tank turret is a mixture of precise and imprecise detail, and Zvezda, using CAD to design the turret probably, opted out of the latter.
hugohuertas
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Posted: Saturday, March 10, 2012 - 02:34 PM UTC
As said before by other people here, I believe that these are modest improvements over the kits parts they are meant to replace, considering the price that Miniarm parts usually have.
The tracks look quite good and useful, indeed
RuloMxy
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Posted: Saturday, March 10, 2012 - 04:52 PM UTC
I believe this discussion is not fair for Miniarm. We should be happy to have an option to improve the kit. I am happy that there is a T-90 kit that is much better than the Skif's T-64 or Dragon's T-80. I do believe that it is good to demand quality of a kit, point out where the kit can be improved, but that we need not to cross the line of criticizing it to the point that we discourage people of buying it, when it's not deserved. It does not help the hobby as a whole.

Miniarm produces some of the most beautiful aftermarket sets and a new turret, regardless if the Zvezda's turret is good or not, will make a better tank. We must keep in mind that there are some details that can be done in a resin set that we can't expect to be produced in plastic at a reasonable price.

Best Regards,
Raul
hugohuertas
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Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2012 - 02:50 AM UTC
I respect everyones point of view, so I ask other people to respect mine
If a seller decides to show here their products its not only to publicize them -yes, don't forget this is an excellent place to show new product in advance, since in this forums is where the potential customers of this stuff can be easily found- but to get feedback from the aimed users of their products.
So I'm completely free to place here my opinion about THESE items shown. I think they are not such a step ahead improving the base kit. Your belief is different than mine, so what?
I'm not saying that Miniarm stuff isn't good, nor I'm being disrespectful with their history bringing stuff that otherwise we could not get if we did not build ourselves.
Again, so what? We are here talking about the T-90 aftermarket sets for the Zvezda kit, and I still don't think that they are worth the probable cost I expect, other than the track set which I believe will be really helpful for some projects.
Adding some welded lines or "rough" surface detail to the kit turret? I can do it miself with not that much work and almost for free, so from my personal point of view I'm entitled to expect other things from aftermarket parts for this specific kit.
I always feel that there are some manufacturers that are judged with the most demanding criteria, and other ones that always benefit with a more generous view and receive a fanfare for whatever thing they offer. Since this seems to me completely unfair and wrong, I try to keep objetivity in my opinions, and to remember that in our world of modelling there coexist rivet-counters, looks-likers, and a wide variety between those two categories (I like to place myself somewhere in this variety)
Back to the point, here I believe that I'm entitled to ask Miniarm for a bigger improvement over the kits parts
If anyone believes that I'm plainly crazy, feel free to hold your breath until these sets become available, but don't tell me that I cannot say what I honestly think as a modeller and as a customer
Just my 2 cents
MINIARM
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Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2012 - 06:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I respect everyones point of view, so I ask other people to respect mine
If a seller decides to show here their products its not only to publicize them -yes, don't forget this is an excellent place to show new product in advance, since in this forums is where the potential customers of this stuff can be easily found- but to get feedback from the aimed users of their products.
So I'm completely free to place here my opinion about THESE items shown. I think they are not such a step ahead improving the base kit. Your belief is different than mine, so what?
I'm not saying that Miniarm stuff isn't good, nor I'm being disrespectful with their history bringing stuff that otherwise we could not get if we did not build ourselves.
Again, so what? We are here talking about the T-90 aftermarket sets for the Zvezda kit, and I still don't think that they are worth the probable cost I expect, other than the track set which I believe will be really helpful for some projects.
Adding some welded lines or "rough" surface detail to the kit turret? I can do it miself with not that much work and almost for free, so from my personal point of view I'm entitled to expect other things from aftermarket parts for this specific kit.
I always feel that there are some manufacturers that are judged with the most demanding criteria, and other ones that always benefit with a more generous view and receive a fanfare for whatever thing they offer. Since this seems to me completely unfair and wrong, I try to keep objetivity in my opinions, and to remember that in our world of modelling there coexist rivet-counters, looks-likers, and a wide variety between those two categories (I like to place myself somewhere in this variety)
Back to the point, here I believe that I'm entitled to ask Miniarm for a bigger improvement over the kits parts
If anyone believes that I'm plainly crazy, feel free to hold your breath until these sets become available, but don't tell me that I cannot say what I honestly think as a modeller and as a customer
Just my 2 cents


You aren't familiar with the technical information for this T-90
As you correct the left hatch and its aperture, it has very big size,all an era blocks,Shtora,sight configuration,hatch removal of empty ammunition, gun barel,turret has absolutely not correct liner and its fastening ??
It not complete list for this turret.

Sorry for my English, too many technical terms

UGBEAR
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Posted: Monday, April 23, 2012 - 11:31 AM UTC
please release a T-72BM coversion set based on zvezda T-90.....why no new decent T-72 plastic set for nealy 20 years?
afv_rob
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Posted: Monday, April 23, 2012 - 12:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

please release a T-72BM coversion set based on zvezda T-90.....why no new decent T-72 plastic set for nealy 20 years?



Theres already a T-72B (M1989) conversion available from Miniarm for the Tamiya T-72, which is frankly the better way to go. If you mean the T-72BM Rogatka then I believe Miniarm is working on one, at least I hope so....

The lack of a new T-72 is a little annoying, but the Tamiya kit has plenty of life in it, and with the plethora of AM out there it can be made in to a very nice model for roughly the same price (as long as you shop around)as a new DML or Tamiya kit, and at least that way no one else has your same model on the display table at the model show.
PorkChopper
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Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 11:01 AM UTC
Obviously, the OOB vs the rivet counting issue isn't going to be solved here, or anywhere else. It's a matter of taste, and taste cannot be "argued". I think the dynamic that often gets overlooked in these discussions is that the OOB camp feels slighted when the rivet counter camp labels a kit with terms like "disaster" and "train wreck" etc... The inference, whether intentional or not, is that the OOB's build of said kit is now a disaster.

If we all use a bit less dramatic language, and instead of calling a kit a disaster, we said "it has accuracy issues", I think it would go a long way towards mitigating some of the perceived insult.

Personally, my ego isn't that delicate and I don't allow myself to feel slighted. I'm a rivet counter when it comes to some particular subjects, and an OOB builder on plenty of subjects where my interest isn't so strong. Nobody can be an expert on every AFV, plane and ship ever made.

Both camps should preface every reply with the consideration that fun comes in many different flavors.

Bill

PS - Brunettes are MUCH hooter than blondes. That's just fact.

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