_GOTOBOTTOM
Яusso-Soviэt Forum
Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
Opinions Needed
Tank_builder
Visit this Community
Ohio, United States
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 12:08 PM UTC
Hey everyone, I'm thinking about building a Croatian T-55 with rubber armor, I don't want to get the Tamiya kit so I was wondering which T-55 is the "best." Italeri/Esci, Skif, or Trumpeter. Thanks for any help.
-Seth
Spiderfrommars
Visit this Community
Milano, Italy
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 12:13 PM UTC
The best one in your list might be the Italeri-esci one....but it has lots of shortcuts and inaccuracies

Also the Trumpeter could work...but also that one is quite ugly

Skif one is simply awful!
Tank_builder
Visit this Community
Ohio, United States
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 12:21 PM UTC
I'm not too worried about the inaccuracies since about 90% of the tank will be covered. Thanks for the info Mauro.
-Seth
Jacques
Visit this Community
Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 12:52 PM UTC
You want the Esci/ERTL/AMT - Italeri version then..
Tank_builder
Visit this Community
Ohio, United States
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 02:43 PM UTC
Thanks Jacques, looks like the Italeri is the winner.
-Seth
grunt136mike
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,896 posts
Armorama: 1,858 posts
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 - 07:58 AM UTC
HI T.B.
Why dont you want the Tamiya T-55 it is by far the only game in town, Jacques is correct. But id go with one of the kits offered by Trump,- Better overall detail on the hull.

CHEERS; MIKE.
Quoted Text

put quote text here


THERE ARE NO X MARINES !!
Jacques
Visit this Community
Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 - 10:01 AM UTC
AMT/ERTL/ESCI kits are better builders and do not have some of the inherent issues that the Trumpeter kits have. For what he wants, it would probably be best.

I personally would start with the Tamiya T-55, but that is me...
Removed by original poster on 12/03/12 - 23:25:19 (GMT).
Tank_builder
Visit this Community
Ohio, United States
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 - 11:26 AM UTC
Hey everyone, this is the tank I wish to model, as you can see the rubber mats cover a large portion of the tank so that's why I am going for the Italeri, now for the Slovene T-55 I want to make, that will definately be the Tamiya kit.
Also if anyone has bigger/more pictures of this tank it would be greatly appreciated



-Seth
Spiderfrommars
Visit this Community
Milano, Italy
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 - 05:31 PM UTC

It's likely to be a Russian made T-55

Trumpeter model sahpe looks far higher than it would have to be (at least 4 mm). The subject looks completely deformed this way. Starfish wheels are completely wrong and its track links are simply awful. Kit was originally conceived to be motorized , so on the lower hull there is a large hole to fill. Moreover it seems that it has been made on ABS plastic, so some guys have had some problems during the assembing because the common styrene glue wasn't effective.
However,since both kits are cheap, it would be possible to make a sort of kit-bashing between them.

Esci kit has a too flat turret. It would be needful to add a 2 mm plasticard shape at its base to get it higher.
Turret hatches are rough indeed. Anti radiation liner has to be improved
Engine deck has to be rebuilt since it represents a Type 59 tank, so grill hinges and main hatches are wrong (they would be good for an early T-54).
Gun mantlet looks too simplified indeed as well as the gun (which doesnt'have a right shape)
It would be suitable to change the exhaust position. At least 4mm backward. It does mean that it would be also needful to modify the fenders
The 3 external fuel cells have to be equal to each other. In the kit one of them is shorter.
Lower hull is hugly and suspension arms are in a wrong position. It's a flaw which is hard to correct, but since eventually they will be hard to see, it would be possible to leave it with no modification.
DShK MG is nice...but since you'd like to depict a Croat tank, you have to use a browning 50mm MG...
Track links are quite nice considering that are provided by a 20 year old model.
I've tried to improving it but since I like a lot the subject, all that flaws got upset me, so in the end I bought "some" Tamiya kits. In my opinion there are too many jobs to do on the esci kit to have a decent rendition. Tamiya kit is more expensive but it can really save you a lot of time. In fact you can get a great result also if you make it straight of the box
My two cents anyway
brunocollin
Visit this Community
Gironde, France
Joined: September 13, 2011
KitMaker: 98 posts
Armorama: 94 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 - 12:54 AM UTC
If you go the Esci/Ertl/Italeri way, you should find a very interesting article from Mil Mod published moons ago.
I can't remember the author at the moment but he goes all the way to correct (amend ?) this old kit.
Just ask if you want it.
clay_cliff
Visit this Community
Lima, Peru
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 371 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 - 02:12 AM UTC
Biggest problem of ESCI/Italeri's T-55: Turret height too low about 2 mm, it is noticeable. You may want to correct this and replace the gun mantlet's canvas cover, it will lack length after correcting the turret and it is about 1-1.5 mm too narrow and placed at the turret's centerline, it should be offset to the right.
Tank_builder
Visit this Community
Ohio, United States
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 - 03:12 AM UTC
Mauro, that picture is perfect! Do you know who it belongs to by any chance, because I've read that it belonged to Krajina Serbs, but I don't think they'd put a Balkenkreuz on their equipment which makes me think it's Croat.

Thank you everyone for the info on the Italeri/Esci kit, I haven't made my final decision yet, still comparing prices and what not. Thanks for all the help.
-Seth
Spiderfrommars
Visit this Community
Milano, Italy
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 01:25 AM UTC
That's your pic a little bit larger



Yes, this exeplar must have belonged to the Serbian Krajina Army

Regarding the other one I'm doing some research about

Croat tanks mostly were captured Serbian vehicles , so it would be possible that the "Balkenkreuz exemplar" originally had belonged to the same unit and then it was marked with the cross by its new owners.
However, a Nazi simbol on a Balkan tank doesn't necessarily mean that the vehicle is Croatian. During the war several indipendent fascist militias fought under the Serbian flag
For exemple some T-55s belonging to Cetnik militias, had celtic crosses and skulls on their rubber armours.

It would be great if a Serbian or Croat modeller could give us some more information about the "Balkenkreuz exemplar"
PatriotaModels
Visit this Community
Bayern, Germany
Joined: October 25, 2011
KitMaker: 126 posts
Armorama: 116 posts
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 03:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey everyone, this is the tank I wish to model, as you can see the rubber mats cover a large portion of the tank so that's why I am going for the Italeri, now for the Slovene T-55 I want to make, that will definately be the Tamiya kit.
Also if anyone has bigger/more pictures of this tank it would be greatly appreciated



Hi Seth,

the picture shows an armor upgraded T-55A from the Army of Serbian Krajina.


This is not a Croat tank.
Here´s a bigger picture of it:
http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs/113167_124057025_t55%20krajiska%20vojska.jpg

Well, the second bigger picture shows a Croat tank. You can see the same "german iron cross" that was used by the Nazis in World War II. I think that this kind of insignia on this T-55 explains everything.

-Seth

Tank_builder
Visit this Community
Ohio, United States
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 03:12 AM UTC
Mauro, thanks for the pic and info. I've seen Chetnik T-34s but never a T-55. I wish there was more readily available infomormation in book form on this topic in the U.S.
-Seth
Tank_builder
Visit this Community
Ohio, United States
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 03:19 AM UTC
Nenad, thanks for the link and info. Do you know if it was standard practice for that depot to paint the tanks like that or was it done by the crews? I noticed the other tanks still had black rubber skirts. Looks like now it's just a question of what tank I wish to model. Thanks everyone.
-Seth
supersxvmoto
Visit this Community
Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: November 05, 2011
KitMaker: 160 posts
Armorama: 153 posts
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 03:53 AM UTC
[quote]
It's likely to be a Russian made T-55

It is Croatian(Russian made) T-55 converted up to look like Leopard

few pictures with MG

http://www.maketarstvo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9752
PatriotaModels
Visit this Community
Bayern, Germany
Joined: October 25, 2011
KitMaker: 126 posts
Armorama: 116 posts
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 05:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That's your pic a little bit larger



Yes, this exeplar must have belonged to the Serbian Krajina Army

Regarding the other one I'm doing some research about

Croat tanks mostly were captured Serbian vehicles , so it would be possible that the "Balkenkreuz exemplar" originally had belonged to the same unit and then it was marked with the cross by its new owners.
However, a Nazi simbol on a Balkan tank doesn't necessarily mean that the vehicle is Croatian. During the war several indipendent fascist militias fought under the Serbian flag
For exemple some T-55s belonging to Cetnik militias, had celtic crosses and skulls on their rubber armours.

It would be great if a Serbian or Croat modeller could give us some more information about the "Balkenkreuz exemplar"



Hi Mauro, I´m very sad to read your comment. Yugoslav and Serbian military, also as Serbian paramilitary units never used fastic symbols. It was strongly forbidden. Croat regime and the largest part of their population use to call all Serbian citizens "cetnici", also as members of the Yugoslav Peoples Army.
99 % of all Serbian military units used to show the old serbian flag red, blue and white with golden coloured old style Christian cross and inside "4 S" in Cyrillic font, which means "Only unity saves the Serbs" or "samo sloga Srbina spasava".

http://www.yusportshop.com/user/include/etno/images/items/zastava_4s.jpg

But it is a very sad thing and event to hear the word "Chetnik" again, for regular Serbian military untis defending their homes, lifes and territory. Well, I think that is the current way it used to be when you belong to a nation like the Serbian one, which lives obviously are less worth than a dogs life. Very, very sad thing.


Tank_builder
Visit this Community
Ohio, United States
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 07:46 AM UTC
Any idea what year that Croat T-55 is from?
-Seth
supersxvmoto
Visit this Community
Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: November 05, 2011
KitMaker: 160 posts
Armorama: 153 posts
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 08:10 AM UTC
the year would be 1993 or 1994
Tank_builder
Visit this Community
Ohio, United States
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 08:28 AM UTC
Thanks, also thank you for the link, I didn't realize it had a M2 instead of the DShK.
-Seth
iowabrit
Visit this Community
Iowa, United States
Joined: November 06, 2007
KitMaker: 585 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 08:32 AM UTC
I don't get it. The 'iron cross' shown painted on the turret is the same pattern as used in WWI long before the nazis came to power so how is this a facist symbol. A swastika would be, but this cross? No.

Oh, and the Tamiya T55 is ok except for the ton of missing detail and the incorrect wheels. I have yet to find a picture of a real T55 with radial grooves in the tyres....
Spiderfrommars
Visit this Community
Milano, Italy
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 11:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

That's your pic a little bit larger



Yes, this exeplar must have belonged to the Serbian Krajina Army

Regarding the other one I'm doing some research about

Croat tanks mostly were captured Serbian vehicles , so it would be possible that the "Balkenkreuz exemplar" originally had belonged to the same unit and then it was marked with the cross by its new owners.
However, a Nazi simbol on a Balkan tank doesn't necessarily mean that the vehicle is Croatian. During the war several indipendent fascist militias fought under the Serbian flag
For exemple some T-55s belonging to Cetnik militias, had celtic crosses and skulls on their rubber armours.

It would be great if a Serbian or Croat modeller could give us some more information about the "Balkenkreuz exemplar"



Hi Mauro, I´m very sad to read your comment. Yugoslav and Serbian military, also as Serbian paramilitary units never used fastic symbols. It was strongly forbidden. Croat regime and the largest part of their population use to call all Serbian citizens "cetnici", also as members of the Yugoslav Peoples Army.
99 % of all Serbian military units used to show the old serbian flag red, blue and white with golden coloured old style Christian cross and inside "4 S" in Cyrillic font, which means "Only unity saves the Serbs" or "samo sloga Srbina spasava".

http://www.yusportshop.com/user/include/etno/images/items/zastava_4s.jpg

But it is a very sad thing and event to hear the word "Chetnik" again, for regular Serbian military untis defending their homes, lifes and territory. Well, I think that is the current way it used to be when you belong to a nation like the Serbian one, which lives obviously are less worth than a dogs life. Very, very sad thing.





Nenad, I really apologize if you have felt offended by my comment, it wasn't my inention at all as well as it wasn't my intention to speak about politics or to express a judgement about Serbian or Croatian people or about that war. I consider all the guys who I've known here as friends. Nationality, race, political opinions...it doesn't really matter to me
In my comment I was referred to some reference which I've read.
I do know the symbol which you've posted but, I wasn't referred to it I was referred to this pic:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7266/6974594028_c577281cdc_b.jpg

As you can see there are Cetnik skull and a Celtic cross painted on a turret. The same description was written on its caption

Now, I might be wrong, my reference could be biased, and that pic could be a fake, I really don't claim to be absolutely right. Although I've been interested in the Balkan war for a while, I'd say that there are lots of things which I still don't know.

I really hope I could undertand what I mean and that you can accept my apologies
Spiderfrommars
Visit this Community
Milano, Italy
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 11:24 AM UTC
Regarding the cross on the tank, this is the Shoulder patch of a Serbian paramilitary group called the White Eagles. (1rst battalion)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Beli-Orlovi-First-Battalion-insignia-Serbian-paramilitary.jpg

As you can notice, on the crest there's a cross which looks equal to the one painted on the turret.

In my humble opinion it might be possible that the tank belonget to that group
 _GOTOTOP