Campaigns
Where Armorama group builds can be discussed, organized, and updates posted.
Big Gun Campaign
panzerbob01
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Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 05:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I've done it, I've decided (for now) what I'll do. Trumpter's /35th Leopold gun.

Just putting this out there, someone could build something like the 28cm Swurfgerat. It was a Hotchkiss H39 that was modified by the Germans to fire four 28cm Wurfgerat 40 mortars. It isn't quite a field gun nor an assault gun but a conventional mortar. Hell if someone found a flare gun/launcher that had 126mm+ flares that'd be cool too!



Chris:

Oh oh oh! Opportunity for a text-wall!

No, I'm not trying to bust any chops here!

That Hotchkiss H-38/39 with the 28cm Wurfgerat (mit 28cm wurfrahmen) was no kind of gun nor mortar at all, least not in any conventional usage of those terms! The wurf were un-guided short-range tactical bombardment rockets, launched from box-frames the Germans would attach to almost anything (even just a rack on the ground for simplest deployment). They were used as cheap area-bombardment weapons in place of artillery - came in both HX and a sort of napalm charge. Similar to but not the same as the "nebelwerfer", which also fired rockets...

Probably most of us older AFV modelers best remember that SdKfz 251 halftrack kit first put out by Tamiya and Nitto years ago as being our first awareness of this odd weapons-system. The so-called "Stuka zu Fuss".

Much more recently, we have been bombarded (no puns! ) with kits of German AFV hosting these things - Trumpeter and Bronco with that H-39, RPM/Mirage with 2 versions of Renault UE carriers and a Lorraine carrier with these, Dragon / CyberHobby and Tamiya with SdKfz 251 and stand-alone frame-mount kits, etc. I'm waiting for someone to get around to selling the Panzer IA with 2 wurf-frames attached! It did exist - there are real pics to "prove" this!

ALL share the same basic technology - a large (28cm or 320cm) rocket-bomb in a launching box which was attached to a vehicle or even just set on the ground and propped-up and pointed in the enemy's direction. It was fired by a cabled igniter with a standard "TNT detonator box".

So... IF "28cm wurf" rockets in boxes count here as "over 125mm "guns", then also you should include all of those kits of any rockets larger then a Bazooka - Honest John, etc., on various tracks and wheels (and maybe stand-alone mounts?).

And then there was the Nebelwerfer... Also, when mounted on armored sWS and Maultiers, known as the "panzerwerfer". These were 150mm or 210mm rockets fired from multi-tube launchers. Some came on vehicles, like sWS and Maultier, some on trailers. Italeri, GreatWall / Lion Roar, and now Bronco have all dipped into this territory. Again, these were self-propelled rockets launched from tubes - not mortars nor tube artillery, in most conventional definitions (things, even including spigot-mortars, which launch a projectile using a base charge).

Just some entertainment here! You got a good thing going here with heavy-calibre tube arty, why rocket off into space!


Maybe someone should put together a rocket-bearing AFV campaign! There's a lot of cool stuff out now to populate such - not only the above wurfs and nebelwerfers and Honest-John rigs - armored cars and tanks from all across the AFV world had various rockets - and there are lots of kits around for this "genre"! I just picked up a 1/72 BT-5? with rockets on its turret! The early Sov version of the Stuka zu Fuss! I have at least 5 wurf kits... I would sign up for such a campaign in a heart-beat!

Bob
Tiger_213
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 05:18 AM UTC
Not busting any chops at all Bob, I just find it funny you're the only person who'll happily write a book over seemingly small details! I said mortar in the most general of ideas simply because it reminds me of one. A 'platform' type device, whether it's a crate/box like the wurfrahmen or a dedicated mortar tube that fires a projectile in a non-line-of-sight fashion. And I simply stated using the Hotchkiss because I saw that kit on Scalehobbyist while looking for the Leopold. I'm just surprised you didn't have something regarding the lunacy at the thought of 126mm+ flares!

I also remember seeing the wurfrahmen mounted on a half-track many many years ago as a kid and it was only until I started modeling last October did I learn anything about them.

As for the 'Rocket Propelled' campaign, I'll let you run that one. I see a lot of issues of digging through what qualifies as a rocket propelled projectile and what doesn't.
Bluestab
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South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 03, 2009
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 06:48 AM UTC
Christopher, I have to agree with Bob on the werf rocket thing. That's why I asked about the SturmTiger, because it's not a howitzer. At least limit it to projectiles fired from a tube.

I'd also suggest raising the minimum caliber from 125mm to 150mm. I didn't mention the caliber thing because it seemed like so many people are going with larger caliber arty pieces. That still leaves it open to vehicles like Hummels and Brummbaers.
Tiger_213
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 08:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Christopher, I have to agree with Bob on the werf rocket thing. That's why I asked about the SturmTiger, because it's not a howitzer. At least limit it to projectiles fired from a tube.

I'd also suggest raising the minimum caliber from 125mm to 150mm. I didn't mention the caliber thing because it seemed like so many people are going with larger caliber arty pieces. That still leaves it open to vehicles like Hummels and Brummbaers.



I specified 126mm simply because that would keep things like the T80 out of the campaign. Was actually hoping to see something like a Sturmtiger. I never saw this campaign as a artillery or non-line-of-sight/indirect fire campaign. Just a campaign for large munitions that would, in most cases exclude MBT's. Granted, exceptions like the Lowe had a 150mm gun, and the JSU 152 was used for anti-tank duties but I just saw that as a chance for variety.

I've got no issues with changing the campaign as you've suggested but I'd need more than just two people to speak up about it. Not trying to be be difficult just keeping in mind earlier time periods didn't have such big guns.
Bluestab
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 08:58 AM UTC
Christopher,
I thought this was supposed to be a conventional tube artillery type campaign. The first post, proposing this campaign centered on conventional artillery, or at least using a tube.

I Quote:
This is a campaign for vehicles and gun systems that use a projectile exceeding 125mm. Field artillery, self-propelled guns, assault/siege guns and even rail-way guns. It all goes, including what-if's.

That's why I said I only asked about the SturmTiger because of its particular type of weapon. And to be honest, I hadn't even thought about a nebelwerfer. Though I did check up a Calliope and Ontos, both being too small.

As far as the caliber, it's not a big deal. I figure most people are going to build pieces of 150mm and up anyway. I only mentioned it because Bob said something about it. I'm not an artillery builder so I'm not really sure what pieces are out their that fall in the 126mm to 149mm range that would left out.

Amyway, it's not a big deal either way. I'm pretty well locked in on what I am looking to build, as well as back-up options if I cannot find the kit I want.

By the way, another suggestion for anyone that might be looking for an idea could do a M270 MLRS? If memory serves those rockets are over 200mm in diameter.
panzerbob01
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Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 09:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Not busting any chops at all Bob, I just find it funny you're the only person who'll happily write a book over seemingly small details! I said mortar in the most general of ideas simply because it reminds me of one. A 'platform' type device, whether it's a crate/box like the wurfrahmen or a dedicated mortar tube that fires a projectile in a non-line-of-sight fashion. And I simply stated using the Hotchkiss because I saw that kit on Scalehobbyist while looking for the Leopold. I'm just surprised you didn't have something regarding the lunacy at the thought of 126mm+ flares!

I also remember seeing the wurfrahmen mounted on a half-track many many years ago as a kid and it was only until I started modeling last October did I learn anything about them.

As for the 'Rocket Propelled' campaign, I'll let you run that one. I see a lot of issues of digging through what qualifies as a rocket propelled projectile and what doesn't.



Chris: Yeah... "writing a book over seemingly small details!"... It IS pretty funny! I don't think I've ALWAYS been like this, but I'll have to ponder that idea for a while!

SturmTiger, wurfrahmen, nebelwerfer, Honest John... all self-propelled rocket projectiles, tube or other. AT gun, howitzer, cannon, "traditional" mortar, spigot-mortar... all projectiles launched by external propellant charge. Two very different classes of weapons, at least as far as how-they-work goes.

But actually... I am WHOLLY behind YOU in however you want to define what counts in your campaign! I'm a firm believer that it's the sole right of the campaign leader to decide and include or not whatever he/she wishes in their campaign - the rest of us (me, too) are really just spectators and players who bring our marbles into the arena YOU have established! We, of course, can and will carp and wail and carry on as needed! All (at least for me) in good, friendly and sometimes didactically-informative fun!

I'm a happy, accepting player in your arena! I've got a slough of things in the 15cm gun range that will fit and any of them will just scream "build ME!" if I listen! For me it'll be a Grille or maybe a brummie (although, now someones have mentioned them, a Sturmtiger is in the stash and I've always wanted to build a Hummel...! ).

Now, about that "rocket-propelled campaign..." hmmmm. Pretty provocative! I've never lead a campaign. Maybe this will be my opportunity to take the hot seat and gear up for some lightening and flak! And hey, "what goes around could come around!" I think maybe I'll go float an idea for a "wurf and friends" campaign!

I'll be here as we build along in the heavy caliber world!

Bob
Tiger_213
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 10:32 AM UTC
I'm working on getting a 'corrected/changed' thread right now.

Alex, I said assault/siege guns. The Sturmtiger would have worked as an assault gun/mortar for close up infantry support. Guess this is another case of me thinking far faster than I can ever type, and I type pretty damn fast. As Bob has got his Wurf and Friends campaign going I'll take the suggestion to re-work this into the conventional artillery campaign.

Bob's thread for rocket propelled munitions;

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/200761&page=1
Bluestab
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 01:24 PM UTC
Christopher,
I saw the "guns" notation. That's part of the reason I went with the concept of conventional artillery like a howitzer. That's why I really didn't give much thought to rockets. I'm thinking towed and self-propelled howitzers.

I asked about the SturmTiger because it's classified as an assault/seige vehicle. I wasn't sure though because it used a rocket. I wouldn't of even asked about it if Paul hadn't asked about the Petard Churchill.

But then a vehicle like a Katyusha...a BM-13 used 132mm rockets... I would have never given it a thought because it's a rail launched rocket. Whereas I looked up the tube launched Calliope, though its rockets aren't big enough. If they were big enough I would have asked about it. Same thing with the Ontos.

Even the minimum caliber thing isn't a big deal. Raising it to 150mm was just a suggestion based on no howitzers coming to mind that fell between 126-149mm. But with rockets allowed that would eliminate a Bm-13 Katyusha.

This is your campaign and you're setting the guidelines. I read them as one way. You've clarified those guidelines. There's no argument there. I had some questions and you answered them.
Tiger_213
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 - 01:32 PM UTC
It's no problem Alex, just as you're trying to state your intentions and ideas I'm trying to do the same. And now that Bob has his campaign going and I'm working on the changes to move mine to a 'Conventional Artillery'; rule of thumb being anything propelled by a powder charge, above 150mm. I believe Bob has a size requirement as well. We'll still get the variety my solo campaign would have gotten, just in a more relevant fashion. As well, both Bob and I are planning on enlisting in each others campaign.
Tiger_213
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Posted: Saturday, December 08, 2012 - 11:48 AM UTC
Right, with the name change comes a slight modification to the rules. This campaign will be for 'conventional' artillery only. This meaning if the projectile is propelled by an explosive charge (gun powder). Vehicles like the Nebelwerfer or Sturmtiger utilized rockets. Those types of munitions will need to go to panzerbob01's campaign here;

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/200761&page=1
samkidd
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Alaska, United States
Joined: January 06, 2006
KitMaker: 530 posts
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Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 - 11:31 PM UTC
I still have a few ancient Bandai 1/24 Long Toms on the shelf that really, really, really need a reason to be built. So I'm game if 1/24 is acceptable to everyone. I built one years and years ago and it turned out simply horrible. But now I have some much better pieces to correct some of the kit's more noticeable errors so I'd like to try again. If I read things correctly then I believe that the Long Tom will just fit into the specs of this campaign.

Jim
Large Scale Armory
Tiger_213
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Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 - 11:39 PM UTC
All good James. Glad to have you on.
ChiefGunner
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Setubal, Portugal
Joined: July 24, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 - 08:56 AM UTC
Hi!

Any new about the beginning of this campaign?

Regards,
TMoon
#152
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Texas, United States
Joined: December 07, 2002
KitMaker: 487 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 26, 2013 - 07:57 AM UTC
I would like to participate.
I may have to scrounge up a kit though.
Here are a few of my past big gun examples.




1/35 scale Dora Rail gun


1/144 scale Dora Rail Gun

For this campaign maybe I should go a buy the 1/72 Dora and make it a complete set.

Regardless, I'm in and just waiting to get started.

Tom
Torchy
#047
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, January 26, 2013 - 06:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I would like to participate.
I may have to scrounge up a kit though.
Here are a few of my past big gun examples.




1/35 scale Dora Rail gun


1/144 scale Dora Rail Gun

For this campaign maybe I should go a buy the 1/72 Dora and make it a complete set.

Regardless, I'm in and just waiting to get started.

Tom


Stunning Tom,just stunning ,you must do a 1/72 Dora, and I'm sure we would all love to see all three side by side
Andy
ArtyG37B
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, January 26, 2013 - 06:45 PM UTC
any chance of dropping the minimum caliber to 122mm? that why trumpy's new 2s1 or d30 could qualify
Tiger_213
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Posted: Saturday, January 26, 2013 - 06:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text

any chance of dropping the minimum caliber to 122mm? that why trumpy's new 2s1 or d30 could qualify



Hmmm, I only picked 126mm to block out oddities like the T-80. I guess since the campaign has been 'slightly' edited already so as to not encroach on Bob Woodman's campaign a few more changes wouldn't hurt it. Once I submit the campaign and it's OK-ed the rules/guidelines will be changed accordingly.

Looking forward to seeing your 2S1 or D30, Ian.
Tiger_213
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Joined: August 10, 2012
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Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 11:22 AM UTC
John/Nito74
Sal/ltb073
Andy/Torchy
Paul/1721Lancers
Nathan/Hangelafette
Bob/panzerbob01
Alex/Bluestab
Chiefgunner
James/samkidd
Tom/Tmoon
Ian/ArtyG37B
And me!

I'll submit the corrected campaign (122m and up, excluding anything rocket-propelled) right now. There will be a new thread with a revised initial post so we don't confuse the hell out of people looking to join.
TMoon
#152
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Texas, United States
Joined: December 07, 2002
KitMaker: 487 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 01:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I would like to participate.
I may have to scrounge up a kit though.
Here are a few of my past big gun examples.




1/35 scale Dora Rail gun


1/144 scale Dora Rail Gun

For this campaign maybe I should go a buy the 1/72 Dora and make it a complete set.

Regardless, I'm in and just waiting to get started.

Tom


Stunning Tom,just stunning ,you must do a 1/72 Dora, and I'm sure we would all love to see all three side by side
Andy



I see from a later post that the campaign is on, so I just purchased the 1/72 hobby boss Dora. It will be here in the states in about 3 to 5 weeks. Just about right.
I'll post pictures as I proceed, but I'm not sure about the picture of all three together, that will take up a lot of space.
Tom
Tiger_213
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Joined: August 10, 2012
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Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 03:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I would like to participate.
I may have to scrounge up a kit though.
Here are a few of my past big gun examples.




1/35 scale Dora Rail gun


1/144 scale Dora Rail Gun

For this campaign maybe I should go a buy the 1/72 Dora and make it a complete set.

Regardless, I'm in and just waiting to get started.

Tom


Stunning Tom,just stunning ,you must do a 1/72 Dora, and I'm sure we would all love to see all three side by side
Andy



I see from a later post that the campaign is on, so I just purchased the 1/72 hobby boss Dora. It will be here in the states in about 3 to 5 weeks. Just about right.
I'll post pictures as I proceed, but I'm not sure about the picture of all three together, that will take up a lot of space.
Tom



Would love to see some pictures of the /35th Dora. Where do you even display something like that? The dining room table I guess?
TMoon
#152
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Texas, United States
Joined: December 07, 2002
KitMaker: 487 posts
Armorama: 441 posts
Posted: Monday, January 28, 2013 - 06:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I would like to participate.
I may have to scrounge up a kit though.
Here are a few of my past big gun examples.




1/35 scale Dora Rail gun


1/144 scale Dora Rail Gun

For this campaign maybe I should go a buy the 1/72 Dora and make it a complete set.

Regardless, I'm in and just waiting to get started.

Tom


Stunning Tom,just stunning ,you must do a 1/72 Dora, and I'm sure we would all love to see all three side by side
Andy



I see from a later post that the campaign is on, so I just purchased the 1/72 hobby boss Dora. It will be here in the states in about 3 to 5 weeks. Just about right.
I'll post pictures as I proceed, but I'm not sure about the picture of all three together, that will take up a lot of space.
Tom



Would love to see some pictures of the /35th Dora. Where do you even display something like that? The dining room table I guess?



Click on the photos button just underneath my name and that will take you to the kitmaker site where my photos are stored. It has pages 1 thru 17. Click on page 17 and it will take you to the pages where I started to record some of the DORA pictures. Just work your way back towards the beginnning to see the progress.
I used a 3ft by 8ft folding table to build it, but it is now stored on the top of some shelving I use to hold the stash of kits.
Tom
Tiger_213
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2013 - 07:02 AM UTC
It looks great Tom, I love the size comparison with the solider on the breach.

Someone on the site was doing a massive diorama with the 'Dora' gun and full support crews, roads, buildings and the like but I don't know what happened to it.
tommy1drop
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: February 07, 2011
KitMaker: 131 posts
Armorama: 116 posts
Posted: Monday, January 28, 2013 - 07:20 AM UTC
Hi Chris
Can you ad me to the campaign, I've got a couple of trumpy 15cm sfh 18's sitting around and a 155mm howitzer that need building.

Tom
Tiger_213
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2013 - 08:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Chris
Can you ad me to the campaign, I've got a couple of trumpy 15cm sfh 18's sitting around and a 155mm howitzer that need building.

Tom



You'll be able to enlist if the campaign gets OK-ed.
GaryKato
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Joined: December 06, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 04:41 AM UTC
Campaign approved. Here is a link to the campaign page for enlisting.

Bug Guns Campaign Page