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Luchs/puma help
ryally
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 03:16 PM UTC
Hi
Can I get some answers on this if possible and maybe real pics.
Can I just wack a 1/35 Dragon Puma turret on a Tasca Luchs hull to do this model tank ( Below) or would it be close or just plain wrong. Any help would be great as I would like to build it
What Turret(model) have they used in the Voyager pic

http://ost-front.ru/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/35440_10151509725211873_1793646336_n.jpg

http://hlj.com/product/VYMPE35378
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 04:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi
Can I get some answers on this if possible and maybe real pics.
Can I just wack a 1/35 Dragon Puma turret on a Tasca Luchs hull to do this model tank ( Below) or would it be close or just plain wrong. Any help would be great as I would like to build it
What Turret(model) have they used in the Voyager pic

http://ost-front.ru/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/35440_10151509725211873_1793646336_n.jpg

http://hlj.com/product/VYMPE35378



Hi, Peter!

I didn't know that TASCA or ASUKA made a Luchs with a Puma/Leopard Turret..? What's more, I can't recall any plastic model manufacturer ever making a Pz.II Ausf.L Luchs with a Puma or Leopard Turret in lieu of the original Pz.II Ausf.L-style Turret. In fact, I checked what books that I have in my present abode, but haven't had the opportunity to drive 126 miles to my other house to check the books that I still have over there. Is this vehicle actually another "Paper-Panzer"? Has/does any plastic manufacturer ever made/make a 1/35 Luchs with a Puma/Leopard Turret..?

Maybe someone can enlighten me..?

As far as you mounting a Puma or Leopard Turret on your Luchs, I can't see anything wrong with that, provided that a Puma or Leopard Turret actually FITS your Luchs...

Question- Do you really want to sacrifice a DRAGON Puma kit just for the Turret? Sounds like an expensive proposition, to me. Wouldn't it be much cheaper for you if you were to use an older ITALERI Puma Turret? The Italeri Puma is a MUCH CHEAPER investment. Just asking...

Who KNOWS what-all the Germans might have planned or had actually built in the latter stages of he war? If anyone knows for sure as regards to this particular vehicle-type, please share with us...
ryally
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 05:24 PM UTC
Funny you should ask
I was also thinking about putting the Luchs turret on the puma hull so I would still have two kits...none wasted. Like in the pic below........not sure if I could do that as that was my next question

http://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Sdkfz-234-wLuchsTerm.jpg

http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/FirstLook/Azimut_Best_Value/A-BV_SdKfz_234_Luchsturm/Best_Value_SdKfz_234_cover.jpg

Bonaparte84
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 05:41 PM UTC
[quote]
Hi, Peter!

I didn't know that TASCA or ASUKA made a Luchs with a Puma/Leopard Turret..? What's more, I can't recall any plastic model manufacturer ever making a Pz.II Ausf.L Luchs with a Puma or Leopard Turret in lieu of the original Pz.II Ausf.L-style Turret. In fact, I checked what books that I have in my present abode, but haven't had the opportunity to drive 126 miles to my other house to check the books that I still have over there. Is this vehicle actually another "Paper-Panzer"? Has/does any plastic manufacturer ever made/make a 1/35 Luchs with a Puma/Leopard Turret..?

Maybe someone can enlighten me..?" [quote]

Actually, the "Puma" turret originally was designed for the Pz.II-derived Leopard reconnaissance tank which would have followed the Luchs. They chose to mount the "Puma" turrets on the Puma (Sd.kfz. 234/2) when they abandoned the Leopard.
Therefore, the "Puma" turret has its place in the Pz.II tank lineage, even if it might not exactly have ended up on the Luchs chassis.

Mounting the turret to the Luchs chassis shouldn't be a problem. Judging from the following real world conversion (Puma chassis with Luchs turret), the turrets would have been interchangeable:

http://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Sdkfz-234-wLuchsTerm.jpg

Chhers!

Bonaparte84
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 05:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Funny you should ask
I was also thinking about putting the Luchs turret on the puma hull so I would still have two kits...none wasted. Like in the pic below........not sure if I could do that as that was my next question

http://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Sdkfz-234-wLuchsTerm.jpg

http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/FirstLook/Azimut_Best_Value/A-BV_SdKfz_234_Luchsturm/Best_Value_SdKfz_234_cover.jpg




OK, you were faster
Sorry for "double-posting"!
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 06:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Funny you should ask
I was also thinking about putting the Luchs turret on the puma hull so I would still have two kits...none wasted. Like in the pic below........not sure if I could do that as that was my next question

http://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Sdkfz-234-wLuchsTerm.jpg

http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/FirstLook/Azimut_Best_Value/A-BV_SdKfz_234_Luchsturm/Best_Value_SdKfz_234_cover.jpg




Thanks! Obviously, that takes care of the fit question, and the fact that Luchs Turrets were fitted to Sd.Kfz.234 Chassis...

I'm still wondering if the German Army ever requested or directed that a Puma Turret be fitted to a Pz.Kpfw.II Ausf.L Luchs chassis. Besides the VOYAGER "Luchs" PE set, I don't know if that was ever done on the real vehicles, or was that just a "Paper-Panzer"-type of an arrangement..? Any info regarding that possibility, or the actual conversion(s) would be a help to me, as I'm genuinely curious about that vehicle-

My question remains: DID any model manufacturing company ever make, a Luchs kit mounting a Puma/Leopard Turret? I've a mind to build one, myself!
ryally
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 06:28 PM UTC
Still after answers to first post

There was this but that doesn't mean its right/was done

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODc0WDEzMjc=/z/eL0AAOSwP~tW2bJo/$_1.JPG

Maybe instead of doing 7 million 1/35 Tigers or king Tigers someone could bring out one of these 2 versions in plastic
Bonaparte84
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 06:37 PM UTC
[/quote]

Thanks! Obviously, that takes care of the fit question, and the fact that Luchs Turrets were fitted to Sd.Kfz.234 Chassis...

I'm still wondering if the German Army ever requested or directed that a Puma Turret be fitted to a Pz.Kpfw.II Ausf.L Luchs chassis. Besides the VOYAGER "Luchs" PE set, I don't know if that was ever done on the real vehicles, or was that just a "Paper-Panzer"-type of an arrangement..? Any info regarding that possibility, or the actual conversion(s) would be a help to me, as I'm genuinely curious about that vehicle-

My question remains: DID any model manufacturing company ever make, a Luchs kit mounting a Puma/Leopard Turret? I've a mind to build one, myself! [/quote]

I found one in Braille scale, by Modelltrans:
http://www.modelltrans.com/panzerwaffe-46/202-pzkpfw-ii-luchs-with-puma-turret.html
They venture alot into what-ifs and paper panzers, so that probably doesn't mean anything...

Then there is a resin conversion in 1/35:
http://www.mrmodellbau.com/_shop/product_info.php?products_id=64

If your fine with what-ifs, go for it! It sure looks nice!
tatbaqui
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 06:40 PM UTC
Hi Dennis,

I haven't come across a Puma-turret-on-Luchs-chassis combo even as a paper panzer. I would think this would be more an inspiration from the gaming side of things. Still, it sounds like a cool project!

The closest I can think of a Puma turret on a tracked chassis would be the VK1602 Leopard. It was planned for but never got into production. Hobby Boss released one:

And now am thankful for this thread as it reminded me that I have one to build

I believe even Amusing Hobby had one as well.

Cheers,

Tat
slug955
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 06:42 PM UTC
Mr Modellbau do a conversion. The vehicle appears in Panzer Tracts but I can't recall which one. As I understand it the fitting of the turret required alteration to the engine deck and crew hatches. Thats why the conversion provides a new hull top. HTH

http://www.mrmodellbau.com/_shop/product_info.php?products_id=64
tatbaqui
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 06:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Still after answers to first post

There was this but that doesn't mean its right/was done

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODc0WDEzMjc=/z/eL0AAOSwP~tW2bJo/$_1.JPG

Maybe instead of doing 7 million 1/35 Tigers or king Tigers someone could bring out one of these 2 versions in plastic



Hi Peter,

Why wait? I think you can still build it per your plan to swap turrets between a Puma and a Luchs. This would be one kit-bash where you don't waste your donor kits.

Cheers,

Tat
ryally
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 06:55 PM UTC
Yes not really waiting just looking for info/answers
Thanks for the Hobby Boss info.

It's close but not the puma turret below.........go to bottom of page

http://seryj221221.livejournal.com/218197.html
Bonaparte84
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 07:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Yes not really waiting just looking for info/answers
Thanks for the Hobby Boss info.

It's close but not the puma turret below.........go to bottom of page

http://seryj221221.livejournal.com/218197.html



Looks like an open turret design, if it's even a turret, and not another casemate configuration...
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 08:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Yes not really waiting just looking for info/answers
Thanks for the Hobby Boss info.

It's close but not the puma turret below.........go to bottom of page

http://seryj221221.livejournal.com/218197.html



Looks like an open turret design, if it's even a turret, and not another casemate configuration...



The vehicle in your link was an open Turret-design- This vehicle is the VK.1602 (D) Leopard (leicht, "light", in English), which was built in 1941. It was not accepted after testing...

The 1/35 HOBBY BOSS and AMUSING HOBBY "Leopards" are larger, full-turreted "Paper-Panzers", which were never built. Neither of these vehicle kits feature a Puma-type Turret...

NOBODY has answered my question yet, that being if there was ever a plastic model made, not a conversion, of a 1/35 Luchs with a Puma Turret- The VOYAGER PE set pictured in the link, way back in the beginning of this thread, DISTINCTLY shows a Puma Turret on a Luchs...

If I see this tank model in the HLJ photo-link of the VOYAGER Luchs PE set right, the Puma Turret is actually a LIGHTER shade of plastic than the ASUKA Luchs Chassis, which leads me to believe that maybe someone at VOYAGER screwed it up!

Comments, PLEASE...
warmonger
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 08:13 PM UTC
It's a hobby. If you want to do, then just do it. Enjoying yourself is what counts.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 08:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It's a hobby. If you want to do, then just do it. Enjoying yourself is what counts.





I get what you're saying- Come what may, I AM going to build one of these, just because it looks cool! I just wanna know if one of these was ever made as a kit, per se, WITHOUT having to convert/kit-bash, not that I'm incapable of doing a conversion or a kit-bash! Lord KNOWS, I've certainly done enough of them in my time!!!
Darkonar
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 08:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text


The vehicle in your link was an open Turret-design- This vehicle is the VK.1602 (D) Leopard (leicht, "light", in English), which was built in 1941. It was not accepted after testing...

The 1/35 HOBBY BOSS and AMUSING HOBBY "Leopards" are larger, full-turreted "Paper-Panzers", which were never built. Neither of these vehicle kits feature a Puma-type Turret...

NOBODY has answered my question yet, that being if there was ever a plastic model made, not a conversion, of a 1/35 Luchs with a Puma Turret- The VOYAGER PE set pictured in the link, way back in the beginning of this thread, DISTINCTLY shows a Puma Turret on a Luchs...

If I see this tank model in the HLJ photo-link of the VOYAGER Luchs PE set right, the Puma Turret is actually a LIGHTER shade of plastic than the ASUKA Luchs Chassis, which leads me to believe that maybe someone at VOYAGER screwed it up!

Comments, PLEASE...



It's just a kitbash with the Hobbyboss VK1602 turret.


http://www.voyagermodel.com/productdetails.asp?itemid=PE35406

Edit: Also there's the World of Tanks's upgraded version of the Luchs.

Bonaparte84
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 09:22 PM UTC
[quote] The 1/35 HOBBY BOSS and AMUSING HOBBY "Leopards" are larger, full-turreted "Paper-Panzers", which were never built. Neither of these vehicle kits feature a Puma-type Turret...[quote]

What makes you say these are not the Puma type?


Quoted Text

NOBODY has answered my question yet, that being if there was ever a plastic model made, not a conversion, of a 1/35 Luchs with a Puma Turret- The VOYAGER PE set pictured in the link, way back in the beginning of this thread, DISTINCTLY shows a Puma Turret on a Luchs...

If I see this tank model in the HLJ photo-link of the VOYAGER Luchs PE set right, the Puma Turret is actually a LIGHTER shade of plastic than the ASUKA Luchs Chassis, which leads me to believe that maybe someone at VOYAGER screwed it up!



And I thought this question had been answered already, by pointing you towrads other options (conversions/ kit bashs / other scales). ALso, you pretty much answered the question regarding the picture for the PE-set yourself...
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2016 - 09:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


The vehicle in your link was an open Turret-design- This vehicle is the VK.1602 (D) Leopard (leicht, "light", in English), which was built in 1941. It was not accepted after testing...

The 1/35 HOBBY BOSS and AMUSING HOBBY "Leopards" are larger, full-turreted "Paper-Panzers", which were never built. Neither of these vehicle kits feature a Puma-type Turret...

NOBODY has answered my question yet, that being if there was ever a plastic model made, not a conversion, of a 1/35 Luchs with a Puma Turret- The VOYAGER PE set pictured in the link, way back in the beginning of this thread, DISTINCTLY shows a Puma Turret on a Luchs...

If I see this tank model in the HLJ photo-link of the VOYAGER Luchs PE set right, the Puma Turret is actually a LIGHTER shade of plastic than the ASUKA Luchs Chassis, which leads me to believe that maybe someone at VOYAGER screwed it up!

Comments, PLEASE...



It's just a kitbash with the Hobbyboss VK1602 turret.


http://www.voyagermodel.com/productdetails.asp?itemid=PE35406

Edit: Also there's the World of Tanks's upgraded version of the Luchs.




Yeah, I get that, too...

VOYAGER shows the Luchs PE set, PE35378, as being their PE set for the TASCA/ASUKA Luchs, which shows a Puma Turret mounted on a Luchs Chassis in their photo of said PE35378 PE set, and not the proper Luchs Turret. Shouldn't VOYAGER have shown their Luchs PE set as a proper, COMPLETE TASCA/ASUKA Luchs, WITH the kit's original Turret instead of a Puma-Turreted kit-bash..? Maybe they had both PE projects (PE35378, and the HB Leopard PE 35406 set) going at the same time, and just happened to switch the Turrets, rather than doing an actual kit-bash..? Possible..?

It's easy to make a mistake like that, especially if the two models are in close proximity to each other, and the plastics are so similar in color, no..? Unless they intended this "error" to be some kind of a joke...
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 12:57 AM UTC
Hi Dennis,
There is/was such a kit in 1/72nd-scale. Maybe that's were your "memory" of such a kit comes from ??
http://olimodels.com/products/1-72-pzkpfw-ii-luchs-with-puma-turret-resin-kit-modell-trans-72398

/ Robin
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 01:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Dennis,
There is/was such a kit in 1/72nd-scale. Maybe that's were your "memory" of such a kit comes from ??
http://olimodels.com/products/1-72-pzkpfw-ii-luchs-with-puma-turret-resin-kit-modell-trans-72398

/ Robin



Hi, Robin!

No, not me... I wasn't even aware that this 1/72nd scale kit existed. I'm just going by what this thread has been about in the first place! Namely, a Luchs with a Puma Turret mounted on it!!!
ryally
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 06:15 AM UTC
Thanks for answers/comments

I think the VK turret is a little larger/wider than the Puma turret..............could be wrong.
That's why I was thinking a Puma turret as it might fit a little better/smaller
tatbaqui
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 06:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Yes not really waiting just looking for info/answers
Thanks for the Hobby Boss info.

It's close but not the puma turret below.........go to bottom of page

http://seryj221221.livejournal.com/218197.html



I haven't come across a kit of that, but here's a conversion posted on the net:



http://intscalemodeller.com/viewtopic.php?t=9951

RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 12:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for answers/comments

I think the VK turret is a little larger/wider than the Puma turret..............could be wrong.
That's why I was thinking a Puma turret as it might fit a little better/smaller



I can't guarantee the correctness of the content of this page:
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/vk1602-leopard-reconnaisance-tank.htm

BUT at the end it says:
"Finally, the task of combat reconnaisance was taken by PzKpfw V Panther and PzKpfw IV. Eventually, Leopard’s turret with its armament was later utilized on the heavy armored car Sd.Kfz.234/2 Puma. Rheinmetall also planned to utilize ...."

This is also stated in 'Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two' revised edition by Peter Chamberlain, Hilary Doyle and Thomas L. Jentz. "The turret developed for this vehicle was subsequently utilized on the heavy 8-rad (8-wheeled armoured car) Sd Kfz 234/2 'Puma'. "

/ Robin
tatbaqui
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 01:04 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Thanks for answers/comments

I think the VK turret is a little larger/wider than the Puma turret..............could be wrong.
That's why I was thinking a Puma turret as it might fit a little better/smaller



I can't guarantee the correctness of the content of this page:
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/vk1602-leopard-reconnaisance-tank.htm

BUT at the end it says:
"Finally, the task of combat reconnaisance was taken by PzKpfw V Panther and PzKpfw IV. Eventually, Leopard’s turret with its armament was later utilized on the heavy armored car Sd.Kfz.234/2 Puma. Rheinmetall also planned to utilize ...."
This is also stated in 'Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two' revised edition by Peter Chamberlain, Hilary Doyle and Thomas L. Jentz. "The turret developed for this vehicle was subsequently utilized on the heavy 8-rad (8-wheeled armoured car) Sd Kfz 234/2 'Puma'. "

/ Robin



Thanks Robin. The above is what I read as well. Makes me wonder why the statement on the Puma turret being any different from the abandoned Leopard project. Cheers, Tat
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