Over Christmas break decided to start the Panda 9K330 Tor. Typical Panda - nice detail but lots of cleanup and weird instruction/part gaffs. Still a few details to add and of course the tracks still. I've opened up one of the missile bays and am building a missile canister to show off the vertical launch aspect of the system (which Panda should have done - after all it's the primary 'raison d'etre' of this vehicle!). I can summarize the problems in construction if anyone is interested?...






All in all it's a pretty neat looking vehicle and model if you're prepared to do a little work.

Jim

Really nice Jim!
I'm interested in your summary of the problems you experienced, mainly in the troubles I believe you've faced with the suspension area, which is usually one of the flaws of Panda's kits

Hi Jim,

I'm interested in your summary too.

Regards,

Mee too
/ Robin


I never thought I'd write that in a Forum post

Hi Hugo - no real issues with the suspension other than trying to keep the suspension arms perpendicular with the hull (when viewed from front or back) and the road wheels are a very tight fit! From an accuracy standpoint maybe - should the idler wheels have cutoffs in them, are the road wheels accurate enough? I believe there are after market alternatives. I also believe the tracks that Panda made for the Tunguska might be more suitable (hollow guide teeth) and they are available separately.

Hull
Step 1: No real issues; I let off return rollers (D23) until track fitting.
Step 2: The spare track retainers need to be spaced out approx. .020", I punched out .020" disks to space them out to fit around the track properly. Speaking of tracks, Panda supplied new 'workable' links with this kit; you no longer get the separate hollow guide horns as referred to in the instructions, but one piece links with solid guide horns and individual pins to hold the links together, like Model Kasten tracks. Also separate rubber pads included if you want to add those.
When attaching the suspension arms watch for the angle (ie are they perpendicular/right angles to the hull when viewed head-on) - if not, they can be bent slightly when dry as I needed to do...
The road wheels are a very tight fit on the axles, I drilled out the openings in the wheels (pretty loose now) but allows for adjustment if the arms are still out of whack. I didn't fit the tracks in this step; I kept the upper and lower hull assemblies separate for painting and will add them last.
Step 3: Not mentioned in the instructions, there are clear alternative parts (5) for the vision ports K49. Don't really need to add G6 if you're not posing the hatch open. Left off headlight lenses until painting is complete. The copper wire for the tow cable is nice and soft, but the given length of 85mm is a little long; I'd try 84mm for the outer cable and 82 for the inner one. There is also one more cable guide support (PE15) spot not shown on the instructions.
Step 4: I annealed the p.e. part PE13 so it would wrap around K23 easier. Watch the alignment of parts PE4 on the ends of G67/72. On fender parts K44/45 there is no mention of adding the position lamps (L21/GP3). There are solid lens parts as well still on sprue L if you don't want to bother with the clear ones.
Step 5: Not mentioned but there are alternate parts for the p.e. parts 14 and 16 around the APU exhaust, G17 and L31 if you don't fancy trying to get an exact curved bend around the port hatch. It seems like there would be some detail to the 'hole' in part K36 but I haven't found any good photos of that area.
Step 6,7: no issues.
Step 8: The supports on part K26 need to be thinned considerably and shortened to fit on the engine hatch.

Turret
Step 9: I made a false floor from .015" sheet for the large opening where the radar sits, otherwise the wide open turret ring space is visible.
Step 10: If you're adventurous you might want to replace the guard H11 with wire or rod; fit is a bit tricky, superglue helps here.
Step 11: All is well.
Step 12: No issues, fit is quite good actually. Don't forget PE parts 10 like I almost did...If assembled correctly without gluing, the smaller hemispherical dome radar should move with the large square dish.
Step 13 radar dish: Pay attention to all the extra supports needed when putting this bad boy together. One of the supports G28 didn't quite reach G1 when assembled, I cheated and added a small extension of .035" rod between the two. Once G1 is attached the assembly is fairly robust, and seams can be taken care of if needed. A flexi-file comes in handy here. IMPORTANT! Do not glue G11 and G32 together without trapping the radar support G46/18 in there. The instructions have you adding the radar later, but it won't work! I followed the instructions :-( Also parts G38 and 42 do not look or assemble like what's shown in the instructions; I glued the parts together and then drilled through both pieces and cemented a thick piece of styrene rod to hold everything together. It looks like there is a styrene piece G17 as an alternate to PE8.
Step 14: All in all the radar builds into a pretty impressive unit. The instructions show a hollowed out area in G54 which G41 fits into; but it's solid so you have to sand the back of G41 flush to fit. There doesn't seem to be a long enough extension on the bottom of part G50, I had to add a piece of strip to extend it to reach the main support piece. The fit of the whole unit into the side hull supports is very loose, I cemented mine in the vertical 'up' position but if you want yours adjustable maybe try wrapping strips of masking tape around the axles to provide a snug fit?
Step 15: Where G4 is supposed to fit, there is a full length slot while you only need a small edge as shown in the instructions. I filled it with a piece of .020x.188" strip.
As of writing I'm working on the cleanup and assembly of the track links, may take a while still!

That's about it. There are lots of little molding pips and some flash to deal with which makes cleanup a little longer, but I think the end result is quite impressive. No doubt there will be detail sets coming along shortly but I'm satisfied with the model.

Jim

Hi Jim,

Thanks very much for this extensive explanation, it will help me a lot

Best regards

HI Jim

Sounds like an improvement over the TUNGUSKA, or am I being optimistic?

Thanks for the info, I've printed it out for my build.

Tom

Hey Tom, yes, I think it's a bit better - no missing parts to fabricate!
I forgot one thing on Step 9, part H29 I filled in the lower 'box' part with sheet backing and the middle part needed a .020" spacer strip otherwise it doesn't seem to attach to H24 very securely.

Jim

Nice build notes on the kit. I am doing a build review of it for the websight, I have noted some of the same things you have.

Good job.

thanks for posting this Jim..

It is unfortunate that Panda Hobby did not give an option of one open missile bay with a missile loaded inside.

The Modelling News website has a nice in box review

http://www.themodellingnews.com/2016/12/in-boxed-panda-hobby-9k330-tor-air.html#more

Thank you for the sharing this, Jim! It is valuable help, indeed!

I was so excited when I saw the announcement that I could hardly hold off pre-ordering one. Still, knowing it might have some real problems as their Tunguska had was helping keep my urge under control

Thank you Jim for sharing your experience with this kit. It will prove useful when I get mine.

Olivier

Thanks !
Doesn't sound worse than many other kits I have fought with before.
Nothing beats Hellers AMX-30 AUF when it comes to sloppy fit of suspension, particularly the swing arms

/ Robin

Thanks for this,I have the Tunguska and BMD1 waiting to start, but honestly the so-so build up reviews I have seen of their stuff makes me leery to start.
GREAT subjects, meh execution.

Does Friul make tracks for this?

Thanks

Yes, ALT-153 with solid guide horns. Found this THREAD which provides some info.

Jim

Just a small update; I added a missile canister, not quite 100% accurate but close enough to give an idea of the setup. Ideally both hatches would be open at once (based on the videos I've seen) but I only wanted to make one side. Using modified 1:48 Sparrow missiles for the bodies of the SA-15 missiles. Would be neat if someone made a 3D printed drop-in canister for this kit.




I also forgot to mention something in the buildup, I missed parts G12 and G15 on the back right arm of the radar dish. G15 is virtually impossible to fit, I had to cut it into 3 pieces and re-assemble it in place. Also had to add an extension so it would fit. The styrene plates on the sides of the arms cover the less than stellar joint.




I also added this ring which seems to be in most photos of the radar dish.



Jim

Jim, be warned...the kit track does NOT fit the sprockets on my kit. the sprockets are about 2-3mm too NARROW for the track! Grrrr......(Will post photo when I get a chance).

Thanks Jacques, only have 10 links assembled so far, but you're right - mine are only maybe 1.5mm too narrow but I'll still need to cut them and splice some tube in there...at least the track links seem pretty robust but cleanup is a chore...

Jim

Thanks for all the details on the build...I have this in the collection to build one day!

My sprockets were also too narrow and I did not have enough track links. I need 5 or 6 more!

Forgot that I took these build photos with a different camera...

Examples of some of the extra cleanup work needed, molding pins I guess?





This is how the instructions show the assembly for the radar dish base:



But how it actually assembles (the pink line highlights the joint):



I also drilled out the parts K5 and K8 for better definition:


Jim

The problem comes from this: The running gear, sprocket, and idler are from Panda's 2S6 kit. The track in the 2S6 kit is the "hollow" guide horn version. It was made for the sprockets in the 2S6 AND SA15 kits. However, the new track in the SA15 kit is wider than the track in the 2S6 kit. I think the solid horn track is correct and Panda molded the hollow horn track too narrow.

I just looked through a LOT of pictures of the 2S6 AND the SA15 and my conclusions are:

There are two wheels, "dished" and "spoked". Spoked wheels are older style, dished are newer. The wheels are interchangable, and sometimes can be seen together.

The track used by the 2S6, with the hollow guide horns, is standard for the vehicle. I only have one set of photos, from the 2008 Moscow parade, that show the 2S6 with the solid guide horns.

In contrast, the SA15 standard track is the solid horn. There are two instances I found of it with the hollow guide horn track.

So the track is interchangeable like the roadwheels. The Panda hollow guide horn track is too narrow. The sprocket in the SA15 kit is too narrow because of this since it came from the 2S6 kit. So you have to widen the sprocket.