There is no doubt that the accuracy and details of today's kits are so much greater than those made decades ago. We have been so lucky to see the increased attention to detail on so many levels across the modeling spectrum. To me, it's great to see so many manufacturers striving to finally introduce that "correct" model of so many popular machines.

I wonder though if all the accuracy and detail is necessary for the underside of the chassis on some models since it will likely never be seen by anyone other than the builder. I'm not talking about wheels, springs, suspension and track details, those need to be accurate even if only partially visible.

Instead I'm talking about the underside of vehicle floors and belly plates. How important are details like that to builders? If you have a truck model that looks good from every angle except when flipped over, would that matter to you? While great to have, is it a make or break for a model if the underside doesn't have much detail?

As I was working on several prototype pieces this weekend I noticed how much more complex and difficult to cast some of the underside detail pieces made the overall model become. Would simpler and easier be better? Does it matter much to modelers?

Just curious,
Jim
LSA

Not very.

KL

Not much for me.

Hi Jim,

I guess the answer depends on the intent of the model builder. I am a process guy, so I enjoy a full build. But to your point, lots of car models are curbside, and it’s pretty common for them to be light on unseen details. From time to time I scratchbuild the details I’m interested in if they’re that important to me, or if they seem interesting or challenging to build.

So, not including the detail might not be a fatal flaw to some, but I imagine others would like to have it. I guess it’s sort of like building the interior on a tank - some really enjoy it (like me!) but, others would not be interested.

So now you make me wonder - would I rather build a kit with “soft” or no detail?? I think that depends on how prominent the part is. I’d hope for a convincing and detailed transfer case, but floor pans within the chassis channels, a blank sheet, seems on to me. If I want more I’ll add it.

Keep us posted on your progress!

Cheers
Nick

I guess it is important to me, but it still depends on the vehicle itself and how visible the bottom would ever be. Having owned a VW bus and done my own maintenance, I am very familiar with what the bottom should look like and would want a model kit to reflect it accurately. However, the VW bus has fairly high ground clearance compared to other cars and it is not that hard to kneel next to one and peek at the belly, whereas I have to lie on my side to try and see under my wife's Nissan Altima. I would be fine with basic detail under a kit of a Nissan (other than the 1996 Pathfinder kit I have).

As my builds go into dioramas I simply don't pay much attention to underneath. A bit like internal detail. If I can't see there is not much point. Still if hatches, doors,inspection panels are open then I will spend hours super detailing. Anyway that is me.

Hi;

IMHO; If the real vehicle has details underneath, then why Not. It Seems to be the trend today; Just look at what Miniart are turning out with Complete Interiors. Now One has to ask themselves, why they build Model's in the first place, its all personal preference anyway ! The Average Builder probably could care less, and then the pro builder or Hard Core Collector like Myself it adds to the Accuracy of the vehicle. Also you have to take into account the Builder who makes his subject to inter A Contest or Show; ie;) The NATS or AMPS !! Then your talking about A Hole New Ball Game !!

CHEERS; MIKE.

Over the years, I, like probably about everyone looking in on this thread, have built quite a few models. Some came with pretty simple "bellies" and not a lot of hidden detail, while others were substantially more complete even in the never-seen places. I've never thought much about whether I really "wanted" the not-seen detail - I've just gone on and pretty much built it if it came in the kit! In a few cases, I have added detail to enhance areas where generally nobody usually looked but COULD perhaps see in were they to try. I've always enjoyed building the detail - even when I know it's not likely to be seen by anyone else, so maybe it's "the process", in part.

But I must confess, modern kits are seemingly raising the bar on what's provided. I LOVE the option of having the better detail, even in the hidden areas. Who knows? I might just decide to take advantage of that wood-grain on the usually not-seen underside of a truck cargo-bed... Trucks do flip over, you know!

The unexpected enhanced detail in hidden places now seen in many newer kits is actually very exciting. Case in point: I acquired a Hobby Boss Soviet Zis-5 truck kit. decided to build it, having never done a straight cargo truck before... Turned out that this modest kit has loads of detail everywhere. It was like building up the real truck. The engine turned out to be incredible, the frame was actually assembled just like the real one went together, and every surface - even the underside of that bed - is pretty fully detailed and textured. It was great fun seeing it... And I hadn't expected half as much as what I got!

So... Put that detail IN! There are plenty of folks who will love it and some who may even be inspired to up their game a notch or 2 when they see something great in a place they expected nothing to be!

Cheers! Bob

This is interesting. Nearly all of my kits have a high degree of detail everywhere including the bottom which comes at the price of having quite a number of pieces that are difficult to cast. These pieces are often found on the chassis and have areas of deep undercuts (like C channels) or are just plain thin by nature.

Pieces like that add a lot of difficulty during the molding and casting process. The number of "unsuccessful" molds made and/or high numbers of reject castings can be frustrating and expensive. While that is the nature of the business it's interesting to see that on SOME models we make in the future it might not be completely necessary.

That's why I was asking really. As a one man operation that pays for every gallon of silicone and every 3D print out of his paychecks, I have to keep things in perspective. If folks like high detail everywhere including the chassis I'm covered. If, however, it'll mostly be a waste of time for most modelers then I need to know as that as well. Any time and money saved on the unnecessary can go towards other projects!

While I'm not going to revise or simplify any kits that are currently underway (94!), it's something to think about for the occasional piece in the future. After we get LSA rolling it might be fun to look at some of the "shelf Queens" with an eye towards simplification but no time soon.


Jim
LSA

I would have to say that underbody detail is extremely important to me.
(That last remark is actually a gross understatement in my case!)

I want at least as much detail (more actually) on the underside as there is on the topside.

When I finish a model (when I actually DO finish one) I want to have learned almost as much about the vehicle as if I had actually been able to work on the real thing myself!

As Nick said; I am a process guy - I want to end up knowing how it works, how it's put together and how all the components fit together to form the whole.

Otherwise (to me) a model is just a carved block of cheese sitting there.

I'm here with Nick and Mike!

More often than not, I add superdetail to the underside of the vehicles, I build.

I love the proccess of building all the features.
Especially when there are enigma's that need additional study and refference finding.

I've heard from my modelling buddies the remark-This superdetailing will not be visible at all, but my answer always was/is-Yes, but I know it's there

I consider underbody detail as, I guess you would say; Fairly Important!
(Important as in I am nearly FANATICAL about it!) - This ain't bragging it is just make'n a point.


Mack NO


VC-1 Prewar Command Car


Steyr Lite Truck


There was NO underbody detail on this trailer other then the spare tire hanging down when I started.


Skoda RSO Ost.


White 666 Semi-Tractor - (Oh I failed to mention the condensate drain valves added to the air tanks and the air line hoses running to the brake actuators.)

I love Angel's comment on this and I agree 10,000 %.

If there is a mystery or a question to solve as to "how it works" or "how did they do that?" then all the better. I love doing the research and I love coming away not only with the answer but also the feeling that you have almost, in some way, touched (worked on) the actual vehicle!

details are only important to me if you can actually see them, the "i know it's there even if you can't see it" does do anything for me personally.

I have to admit; I have at times intentionally added details that I knew could not possibly be seen, under any circumstances, on the finished model - crazy I know!

"But I know it's there!"

At competitions I often display my military models sitting on mirrors just like the car guys!

Most newer kits have enough detailed chassis that it seems like there is no need for adding anything. Until you look at the real thing. Biggest problem is thickness of plastic, making scale representation of chassis impossible. Sometimes I wander why none of aftermarket photoetch companies never tried to make metal chassis as a replacement...
So, from my point of view, there is no point in superdetaling something that is wrong to begin with. To add to this - I like to have models in my collection built by the same standards and superdetaling whould mean opening Pandora's box - when you make a "perfect" model all others you have loose their value... And all of future ones have to be the same as that one. And then you come to the point that you have a bunch of started models abandoned for lack or parts, data, skills or will. Lots of modelers hit this wall and never recovered from it.
For this reasons I keep my builds simple. I like to see all the main components but I don't add any wires, cables, pipes, etc. But I love to see other people doing that and I admire and incourage them.
Greetings, Bogi

I would not be interested in a super detailed chassis, I see no point if its not going to be seen, also paying for the added detail, which I will leave in the box, if you want super detail buy/add it yourself. The knock on effect is kits become cheaper, the after market companies thrive (if you want to add) more people may be attracted to this our hobby by driving the prices down, and/or we get more new releases of those items we never thought we would see in anything else but resin

I am very aware that some people like the idea of super detail, obviously if that's your bag great, but I think cheaper kits, quality assured would be better for all of us, I have felt this for some time and I have been modelling for over 50 years, I don't expect you all to agree with me, just see my point of view, remember there are a few companies out there, mainly European where you get the basics and add any detail you want, not being a rivet counter helps, by the way I do know what goes underneath the vehicle, I was a heavy vehicle mechanic, now I repair people instead of vehicles and I don't need to see somebody opened up to know what they have got inside them, regards keith

I've become a firm believer in mounting my completed models on a base, some simple, some more involved. So anything that isn't visible need not be accurate down to the last nut & bolt. I wrestled with the suspension on Trumpeter's M-1117 Guardian trying to get the correct alignment and get all four wheels level. So simple is better, for me anyway. Al

If the detail can be seen without having to turn the subject upside down, the detail should be included. Who but some contest judge is going to count bolt heads that have been bespattered with umpteen layers of mud and other "battlefield" detritus..?

Jim, it all depends on how visible and important the missing detail is. Hollowed-out C-channels are nice but a nightmare to cast, so you need to gauge the market for each kit. Bear in mind that poor detailing limits the modeller's options - I've used well-detailed kits for "crash" or "repair shop" dioramas that simply wouldn't be possible with poor details. And it depends a lot on the subject - most tanks have flat bottoms with only a little detail, all of which is simple enough to remove from a rubber mould easily, but trucks and A/Cs may have far more complex frames that are a challenge. So, not real answer I'm afraid!

I once built a "rainy day" dirt road base for a model. It started with a mirror and I layered muddy ruts over that. I intentionally left reflective "water puddles" in the muddy roadway to help show the underside on the model.

It didn't work too well but everyone got the idea.

Ultimately again it is; "to each his own."

My own personal choice: a "curbside" level of detail on the underbody would be a total turn off for me when making a purchasing decision.

Either that or I, like Nick, would be planning a total chassis scratch/rebuild to satisfy my personal needs and tastes.

Perhaps that is the answer: You as a manufacture do a total knockout job on the rest of the model and we happy few that feel the need will get busy fleshing out the details you intentionally choose to leave out.

After all that's what has been going on in the industry since the beginning of injection molded models. Similar type production/manufacturing decisions are being made all the time by even the top model companies: "Hum, now what can we leave out and still have a sellable model?"

However, the problem you encounter these days is that the market trend is definitely towards more and more highly detailed models. Therefore your quandary as a model manufacture is now: "how do I compete in this environment and still offer an attractive, sellable but profitable model?"

Just my two pence worth, if it is something within my modest modelling capabilities to add I will do so. The Panda M-ATV comes to mind with no brake lines, or wiring for the various antennas. Also the wiring internally for the various radios and adding the intercom boxes and what I am assuming is the screen for drivers thermal imaging camera. Realistically unless you turn the model over and look on the roof inside the cab you could argue is it necessary to add them. Some might say no, but in my mind I will know they aren't there and it will get to me, so in a round about way I'm saying it matters to me. But each to their own is my view.

Hello, Everyone!

A "total curb-side" as Mike noted, would be a "turn-off" for me too, to an extent. When I mentioned "anything that can be seen without having to turn the subject upside down", I meant exactly what I said. That didn't mean a total omission of engines, transmissions, suspension components, steering components, brake hydraulic or air lines, springs, shock absorbers, air reservoir tanks, brake drums, complete differential/axle units, transfer cases, trans-axles, etc...

I'm still a bit frosted after all these years that TAMIYA "couldn't" include a simple part such as the Pitman Arm in their CCKW353 kit, whereas the various ITALERI/TESTORS/PEERLESS MAX kits of the 1980s, could and did. I believe the HELLER kit also included one- Not 100% sure, but I believe they did...

A Pitman Arm, is DEFINITELY something one can see without having to turn your model of a "Jimmy" upside down, just to illustrate a single, SIMPLE example of what I'm talking about...

That's not the case at AMPS. We don't pick up, let alone turn over, the models in the contest. The only judging of the underside involves the basic alignment of tracks, wheels, and suspensions. No one is even looking to see if the floor pan is painted between the frame rails. We judge the models on what you can see in the orientation and context that is presented.

People have this mistaken impression that AMPS judging demands hyper-detailing and accuracy because the judges (who are just regular AMPS members) are hardcore tank builders. That's just not true. The thing that judges focus on are the basics: open seams, flash, glue smears, paint runs, hair embedded in the finish, suspensions out of line, and separated track links. A stock Tamiya kit done well can easily score higher than some 1000-part, metal track, three PE set, magnum opus if the builder doesn't take the time to clean up his seams and line up his wheels.

KL